To think that having a drug free natural child birth does not mean you are a better/ stronger person or have more guts

[Reallytired]

Every childbirth experience is different. I am glad that there are options of intervention like caeseran section, drugs for pain relief. It would be horrendous to live somewhere like Chad where maternal death in childbirth is extremely common.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4459880.stm

People forget that modern intervention means living mothers and babies.

I hate it when women who have had an easy birth experience belittle those who had complications. There are no prizes for putting up with pain.

I think its sad when women are bullied against a medicalised birth by NCT types. Sometimes its the best decision.

Um, findtheriver if you're referring to me I didn't ahve a medicalised birth.

Two close friends had wonky epidurals though and it was agony for them.

That's fine findtheriver, I don't think I've expressed an opinion on anybody's birth experience but my own so I'm sure your comments weren't directed at me.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience of natuaral birth and c-section - I'm sure you'll agree that sharing my experiences of childbirth with an epidural are equally valid.

I think you'll find if you read my posts, Mummies, I am not referring to anyone! I am not making any assumptions about how other individuals have given birth - but you clearly are!

It's a fact that if you opt for an epidural, you are opting for a far more medicalised birth in that an anaesthetist will be required, and you will need a higher level of monitoring. That's a fact. It is true of anyone who has one. It is the reason you need to be in a hospital with anaesthetists and doctors on hand to be able to have one.

I have never said that epidurals are 100% effective. In fact the chance of having a 'wonky' one may be the reason some women decide to give birth without in the first place. Why expose your baby to the drugs involved and increase your own chance of ending up with instrumental birth if it may not work anyway?

"Why expose your baby to the drugs involved and increase your own chance of ending up with instrumental birth if it may not work anyway?"

Oh, purely for shits and giggles, isn't that why anyone has an epi?

chequers, did you debreif your birth ?

epidurals can be a total block. women can be rendered totally numb and immobile. mobile epidurals are a bit of a misnomer as you can;t really get up and walk as you could without one.. but a lighter dose can be really helpful. but constant top ups can be counter productive

i think that it is beholden on us to fully inform ourselves, ask questions, read books, attend classes, read MN , talk to other mothers, midwives, doulas, HCPs , and really get to grips with birth.

i always ask my clients to do a worst case birth plan and a best case birth plan and then we can meet somewhere in the middle, but it is really important to cover all bases and to think about the what ifs of birth

it is preferable to think that it will all go well, but with c.section rates reaching 28 % in some areas, you do have to really consider where you give birth and how.

as fabsmum has pointed out, continous care is a massive help in reducing c.section and intervention rates

the one woman one midwife campaign needs supporting ! www.aims.org.uk

"The fact that the SD happened in a home environment and was resolved simply and quietly by two well trained midwives"
I didn't know that was an option - i assumed SD would be reason for instant transfer! HB looking more and more appealing for #2

actually mummiesnet, i thikn it is a valid question.. is anyone told before they have an epidural about the effects on the baby? same with opiate pain relief... some women do make that a consideration in opting for little to no pain relief, or using massage, TENS, water and other non chemical methods

SMB, the royal college of obs & Gynaes recommends mcroberts manouvre as first way to try to resolve an SD and that can be done at home !

Sorry, I'm confused by your post Lulu.

Yes I consideresd where I gave birth, yes I was aware of what could go wring.

I had an epi with dc1, it didn't 'take' properly and i could still feel some pain on my left side. Also the midwife didn't top up towards the end so that I wasn't too numb and could feel to push.
I found it very painful and was quite upset at first having had the epidural and then found it hurt anyway.
dc2 I didn't have any pain relief and wow! It hurt loads more, so even my not totally effective epi had provided more pain relief than i thought.
DC2 was very satisfying birth though. That's my lot now - done it both ways!!

only the first sentence was specifically directed to you chequers! about if you had debriefed your birth.

a lot of women, myself included, never consider anyhing going awry.. that is why i personally felt so shite after my em c.s, i had never considered for a second that my actual birth would deviate from the birth plan

Oh right, no lulu, I haven't hadd time.

Ultimately none of us have a crystal ball and can predict each other's birth experiences. The stories on here range from fab epidurals to awful epidurals, and fab drug-free births to awful drug-free births. Therefore there is no definative right or wrong and arguing about it is futile.

All we can really do is share what happened to us personally and be an expert on our own births - we can't be an expert about anybody else's! Even the experts can't predict what'll happen in a delivery suite hence the number of EMCS's!

I have read enough on here to see that giving birth is a bit of a lottery as it is a unique and unpredictable process. Each mum, baby & birth - is unique. Quote stats all you like but there are exceptions and counter-stats out there and direct conflicting stats if you care to find them so the best each expectant mum can do is choose what she wants for herself without predjudice.

i think you need to make time. i was very traumatised by my first birth and did not do anything about it, as i did not know you could or who to ask. it had a horrible lasting effect on me, and i would hate anyone else to go through that

the birth trauma association and sheila kitzinger birth crisis are two good organisations

also, you might want to contact the hospital and see if they do any sort of birth afterthougts service, even if they don;t have fomalised one, you should be able to see a midwife to go through your experience, simply talking it through can be very helpful.

'Why expose your baby to the drugs involved and increase your own chance of ending up with instrumental birth if it may not work anyway?"

Oh, purely for shits and giggles, isn't that why anyone has an epi? '

Are you being deliberately obtuse and misinterpreting my posts?!!

From the women I know, all of them have chosen an epidural for pain relief. Of course no one chooses it to expose their baby to drugs FGS!
The point I am making, and I think lulu has tried to explain this too, is that because there ARE side effects to pain relief, many women research these beforehand, and it forms a PART of their decision in what to choose. And of the women I know who have chosen NOT to have an epidural, the primary reason is that they don't want to have the side effects - ie drugs passing to baby, increased risk of cascade of interventions.

I don't know why this seems particularly difficult to understand.

Thanks Lulu but I'm not traumatised.

I just wanted to make the point that epidurals do not necessarily equal no pain.

Sorry you had a tough time with your first birth though Lulu

thanks chequers. i suppose i am very sensitive to other women being traumatised to any degree.. just thought from some of your posts you had some negative feelings round the birth and just though it might be relevant to mention. am glad to say my second birth was a fantastic experience.

I'd have an epidural if there was ever a next time, so shoot me.

I'm going out now so won't be posting for a while.

Sorry, "so shoot me" wasn't directed at you Lulu, just a gerneral answer to the thread.

I would too - even my epi wearing off was easier than natural childbirth.

I'm not planning on more, but having tried both ways, i know I'm not good with pain so would go for the epi.

Lol at the thought of lulu shooting you next time you're in labour - she's more likely to be knitting, baking and getting excited

both births fab
1st (very wanted) epidural
2nd wanted an epidural but too late when go too hospital.

it was an amazing experience giving birth with no pain relief and i felt on such a high afterwards (tho tbh I was on a high with first one two). i am so glad i did it (and yes, i wanted a medal!).

However, I would choose an epidural next time if poss.

I have had two emergency C-sections. Didn't feel that i'd failed either time tho I know people who have.

Perhaps I should feel 'empowered' and 'stronger in myself' because I've managed to look after a newborn after having had a major op.

Scar, yes, you probably should
(That's not sarcastic, but there isn't a [genuine] smiley )