To think that having a drug free natural child birth does not mean you are a better/ stronger person or have more guts

[Reallytired]

Every childbirth experience is different. I am glad that there are options of intervention like caeseran section, drugs for pain relief. It would be horrendous to live somewhere like Chad where maternal death in childbirth is extremely common.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4459880.stm

People forget that modern intervention means living mothers and babies.

I hate it when women who have had an easy birth experience belittle those who had complications. There are no prizes for putting up with pain.

I think its sad when women are bullied against a medicalised birth by NCT types. Sometimes its the best decision.

I suppose that not all b/c or midwives are equally good. Our local b/c is very good.

One thing that I was lucky in was having continuous support from not one but two women during my labour - my mum and the MW (quiet shift, she was nice and got on with my mum so barely left my side). That did make a huge difference to my experience - they had both delivered babies and had babies and I felt safe with them.

Fabsmum - I would be interested in studies showing using a doula has better outcomes. Thanks for the other links but I was asking what you mean by continuous care, not whether it's effective.

I haven't been 'bullied' but I have to say I've encountered a lot of birth snobbery.

I ended up being induced and having an epidural before the syntocinon was administered, so my labour was quite intervention-heavy. OTOH it was calm, pain-free and I didn't need stitches - I loved it, definitely the right choice for me.

Quite a few natural birthers have told me I was 'cheating'.

OTOH plenty of friends who went the more natural route have either respected a different choice, as I do theirs, or expressed envy .

Well personally i have felt much better in myself for having drug free births.

For me I am a better woman for having gone through it naturally.

I got no satisfaction from my 2 cs.

That's just me. But in RL I know others who feel the same way, so it is not uncommon.

"I was in labour for 36 hours. I had no pain relief other than G&A. I had a 3rd degree tear. The obstetrician was sent for, and she was so worried about it she wanted to give me an epidural to stitch it. I convinced her otherwise"

What is the point of denying pain relief for having stitches. How does it benefit you or the baby? Surely its stupid to suffer in extreme pain when there is an alternative.

"I got no satisfaction from my 2 cs."

I find that sad. Isn't satisfying to bring a healty baby into the world. You are no different to the natural birth bridaged who made needmorecoffee feel guilty for her cs.

Cheating!!!! Frazzledgirl I can't believe people have told you that. Some people need to seriously get a life.

I think fabsmum has come in for some really unfair criticism on this thread. All of her posts have been very reasonable, clear AND medically accurate, which is more than can be said for some of the others!

We are all individuals, and we all have different experiences. Personally, I'm similar to kittywise - I found my natural births made me feel better in myself (I emphasise that, because it's not the same as 'better than anyone else'). I felt stronger, braver, more able to cope with anything life could throw at me. In contrast, I felt that my CS was a procedure which was medically necessary (and I'm thankful to live in an age where medical problems can be picked up and the right sort of intervention used when medically necessary). But I dodn't feel that I had achieved something in the same way I did with my natural births. That's simply a fact.

I think what a few women have trouble accepting is that as Fabsmum pointed out, having a drug free birth doesn't necessarily mean the labour was easier. Some people are prepared to accept a higher level of pain than others. Some people have stronger feelings about not wanting their baby exposed to drugs through epidural etc. My SIL was very scared of giving birth. She looked around various hospitals, had extra antenatal appointments to talk through her fears and arranged to have an epidural as soon as she arrived at the hospital. She hardly experienced labour pains apart from the very early stages of mild contractions. She ended up feeling pleased with the way things went because she accepted that she was very frightened of the pain and this was her way of dealing with it. That's fine. For a woman with those feelings, natural childbirth would be frightening. But for many others, an entirely medicalised experience, being numb from chest downwards would be absolutely NOT the way they want to give birth.

I also think the NCT comes in for some unfair bashing on here. I went to NCT and I felt as though they were very reasonable about discussing all the pain relief options and they were honest about the pros and cons. A big emphasis at NCT is on breathing techniques, that's true, but I found this great - they really worked for me. A few of the women from my group ended up with epidurals, and one of them said to me afterwards that she hadn't found the NCT very helpful, but tbh I felt she was just turning around after the event and complaining, because she's attended all the classes and raved about how good they were at the time. Maybe because she ended up with interventions, and therefore felt that she hadn't got as much out of the NCT course as she might have done had she had a natural birth. But that's not the fault of the NCT.I think NCT rocks!

"Being numb from the chest downwards"

Sorry - can we just clear up this myth that everyone who has an epidural feels nothing.
People talk about epidurals as if the recipient experienced no pain at all - I was 5 cm when I had mine. Even after it went in I could feel my feet, get on my knees, then it wore off and I could feel every single contraction and the delivery - including ventouse, my episiotomy and forceps.

Numb from the chest downwards, if only!

Oh, and I had to have two shots of local anaesthetic while they stitched me. Epidurals, 'the easy way out'

Ok, epidural doesn't have to mean totally numb from chest downwards, that was a slight exaggeration. I had one for my CSection, and yeah, I could still feel my feet and so on, and of course you feel pressure etc but they certainly aren't like feeling the pain of natural birth!!

I had epidurla with Ds. I had a horrendous birth. it was very long and traumatic and both Ds and myself were in a lot of distress by the time he was delivered. i had had to have an epesiotomy, he had to have scalp monitors, forceps and the threat of ventouse.

he spent 12 hours in special care and we both stayed in hopsital for 3 days.

I decided with DD that i didn't want epidural. I got to the hospital and was told they would get someone. by the time they had even bothered trying to get an aneasthatist i was already too far dilated to be allowed the epidural apparantly.

I delivered DD quickly and trauma free. I did tear slightly but not enough for them to even mark it on the sheet.
yes of course it hurt. at one stage i thought someone had set fire to my labia.

But i managed it. and teh sense of pride in my achievement was almost equal to teh pride i had in my new baby daughter.
I personally would never have an epidural again, but i certainly do not judge those who would. my experience was bad. if i had had an easier birth with Ds then no doubt i would have had an epidural with DD.

But i agree wholeheartedly with the OP. medical interventions available in the west make birth related death almost non existant. in under developed countries there are still horrifyingly high statistics.

As I've already said, they wear off findtheriver, and some m/w's will encourage you to carry on without topping it up. In fact, my m/w refused to top mine up so that I could feel to push. Which was nice, given that DD was enormous and stuck.

But of course, I wouldn't know anything about the pain of childbirth, would I?

You need to get your facts straight - epidural does not automatically equal no pain.

"I could still feel my feet and so on, and of course you feel pressure etc but they certainly aren't like feeling the pain of natural birth!!"

Oh my God findtheriver, what a ridiculous and arrogant thing to say!!!!

I know nothing about your birth chequers - why would I???!!!!!

I was making the point that some women choose to go down the epidural route. Others choose not to. And that people are different in how much pain they are prepared to tolerate, and to what extent they are prepared for their baby to be exposed to drugs through epidural etc.

Actually, it's interesting how few people know that epidurals wear off and have to be topped up. I didn't know that, I paid £150 for NCT classes and they didn't bother to tell me that

"they certainly aren't like feeling the pain of natural birth!!"

If you know nothing about my birth then why make sweeping statements about what giving birth with an epidural feels like?

Sorry, Mummies, but how is it 'arrogant' or 'ridiculous'??
I found having an epidural and csection far easier and less painful than giving birth naturally.
Other people who have experienced both may feel differently.
But that was my experience, and to dismiss my experience as invalid shows that YOU are being arrogant!!

It's arrogant because yor assuming that everyone had the same experience as you.

Don't you know how many people end up with wonky epidruasl? Just because you didn't feel your section doesn't mean that some people who give birth vaginally with an epi actually feel some, or all of it. Its rude to say they know nothing about what child birth feels like,

that was probably the biggest feature in my own birth. the MW topped up my epidural before checking me. i couldn't feel anything and Ds was crowning. i didn't know when to push and was wasting a lot of my enegery pushing at the wrong time.

I got tired very quickly, Ds was sedated once again (epidural has this effect on the baby as well) and it meant that the pushing stage took over an hour.

I strongly believe thathad i not had my epidural topped up i would have not needed to be cut and Ds would not have spent time in special care.

Epidural doesn't mean pain free at all. it measn that thepain is lowered so that you save yoru energy for when you need it, at the pushing stage rather than trying to fight off the agonyof contractions.

but as i said, my own bad experience allowed me the chance to have a natural birth, and i am so glad i did.

I too think Fabsmum is fab and the reason I ask her so many questions is that I know she'll give answers without sighing, rolling eyes, getting exasperated etc.

but being numb from the chest down won;t neccesarily give you a better birth experience. you are more likely to need intervention with that too.

i am sorry you feel that your NCT classes did not fully inform you of things, perhaps you hsould feed that back to the teacher and she can be sure to emphasise the need for top ups, pros and cons of letting it wear off etc?

i also did not feel satisfaction after my c.s, but that does not mean that i dont think anyone else should! it can be a really positive and enriching birth experience, but for a lot of women, it isn;t

i think pain relief is just that, pain relief,it does not stop the pain , it does not make it go away.. it makes it bearable/takes the edge off/alters your perception and makes labour more copeable with

pain relief encompasses such a lot:

from water right through to epidural, but nothing will stop you feeling anything except a full block epidural topped up every few hours or a general aneasthetic.

i thikn we all need to get our heads round the fact it does hurt ! and learn the different methods for coping with it and the reason why it is painful and how to work with the pain IFYSWIM

'Its rude to say they know nothing about what child birth feels like, '

• err, I didn't.

It's interesting how the people who seem to be getting their knickers in a twist on this thread, and are terribly concerned about how other people have had their babies, tend to be the ones who have chosen a medicalised route.

As far as I can, the women who have had natural births are saying, 'Yes, this was my experience, I found it hugely empowering, but of course it's up to each individual what they do'.

I am not making a judgement about how other people choose to have their babies. I am saying that IME a cs with epidural was relatively painless and natural childbirth hurt like hell!

Do you think some of the attitudes are due to the work ethic saying you need to work hard to be allowed to enjoy something? (Just opening the discussion up a bit, I'd love to win the Lottery tonight, have no qualms about enjoying the proceeds.)

Thanks Lulu, I do know that being numb won't make the birth better. I'm just making the point the people like findtheriver assume that because I had an epidural I felt nothing, whereas I clearly remember it being utter agony, except for a couple of hours in the middle, out of 26 hours.