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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that having a drug free natural child birth does not mean you are a better/ stronger person or have more guts

501 replies

Reallytired · 17/10/2008 18:25

Every childbirth experience is different. I am glad that there are options of intervention like caeseran section, drugs for pain relief. It would be horrendous to live somewhere like Chad where maternal death in childbirth is extremely common.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4459880.stm

People forget that modern intervention means living mothers and babies.

I hate it when women who have had an easy birth experience belittle those who had complications. There are no prizes for putting up with pain.

I think its sad when women are bullied against a medicalised birth by NCT types. Sometimes its the best decision.

OP posts:
chequersandchess · 17/10/2008 21:13

I think it's perfectly valid for people to share their traumtatic birth experiences here. However, just because a birth is traumatic or medicalised it doesn't necessarily mean that the woman in question won't feel proud or have their own share of "life-changing confidence" for having gone through it.

FWIW of the 5 women in my NCT group it's not the natural birthers I admire. It's the woman who went through 66 hours of labour, failed ventouse and forceps and an emcs.

chequersandchess · 17/10/2008 21:14

Actually, that's not true, I do admire the natural birthers, but I am in awe of the lady I mentioned.

chequersandchess · 17/10/2008 21:16

Kathy, you saved the NHS and made their stats look good the second time, no wonder they were pleased with you

chequersandchess · 17/10/2008 21:16

Saved the NHS money.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 17/10/2008 21:17

I know Chequers, also I popped ds out within 5 minutes of arriving at the hospital so I didn't even cause them very much work.

These damn women with long labours who take up all their time

chequersandchess · 17/10/2008 21:18

Agree Kathy, haven't they heard how over-stretched maternity units are? Selfish cows

fishie · 17/10/2008 21:22

i had induction, ecs, brutal treatment.. the works. but feel very proud to have got through that. if anybody ever dared to suggest i hadn't experienced 'proper' childbirth then i think they would regret it.

mytetherisending · 17/10/2008 21:25

I agree and my god am I proud that with dd1 out of a 39hr labour I lasted 33hrs on tens and g and air until the epidural was put in, with dd1. With dd2 labour was 19hrs with only 1hr on gas and air and the rest on a tens machine. I think I did very well. Fortunately the midwives all said I had done well too

catsmother · 17/10/2008 21:26

My 1st birth was 4 hours, no drugs, couldn't even describe the slight discomfort (honestly) as pain ..... it was certainly nothing like the pain I'd get with IBS, or when I'd put my back out, and in fact, when it was over I was rather shocked, because I'd been led to believe it was supposed to hurt .......

..... so yeah, at that point, I was feeling rather proud of myself and pretty smug. But, I am sure this experience didn't do me any favours because when it came to birth no. 2 I had a very rude awakening - and a horrid, awful shock when I finally found out what that pain was that the vast majority of women go through. I honestly thought I was going to die and panicked dreadfully because I couldn't cope with what was happening (long back to back labour) until I finally had an epidural.

So much for births getting easier each time. It really has nothing at all to do with guts.

idontbelieveit · 17/10/2008 21:30

I had a terrible birth experience, 15 days overdue, oligohydramnious, failed induction, emcs, baby in SCBU, bloody rubbish. I have always had sympathy and support from anyone who heard my birth story and have never felt a failure because of this experience even though i was traumatised and depressed by it for ages afterwards.

I would really love it if i could have a natural birth this time, not because I'll feel a failure if I don't but because my recovery should be quicker in which case I'll be out of hospital quicker and back at home with my lovely children and DH instead of stuck in a vile dirty maternity ward with midwives too overworked and underpaid to give a shit what happened to me.

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 17/10/2008 21:35

OP..I think that modern interventions are overused and that sadly doctors and midwifes aren;t adequately trained in modern, intervention free Birth, however, I do also agree with your statement that modern interventions can save life....just ...the balance has nbot been worked out, yet, and nhs, is all talk no trousers about it...

however, as for my personal birthexpereinces....es would /could be classed as a traumatic Birth, considereing he turned back to back at the last minute, because of artifical breaking of the waters...to exalerate a birthing process that was until tha not traumatic nor long...
however, [eople expained and was able to make choises (right or wrong...)...but they explained my experience/possible experience to me...I was not traumatised...

  1. pg and birth....pg mostly not traumatic, but towards the end all turned....just for mild gd....birhtplans were corupted, stress due to outside factors, but birth alkl in all lovely, all went well...etc,,,however child sufferend by me being in a hospital that was not able to cope with the amount of women they had...despite best efforts...
ys...got my will and was also deemed safe...midwifes fab, but maybe didn't catch some signs AQWLLL as inhibeted i techniques because of system....most painful an d distressing labour, ending up in Emergency C-section, despite being all set for a lovely homebirht...Baby i n bad position and also getting to scared, shutting down, and then seriously bad hospital experience...communication probs, and also very belittling behaviour towards me....not very conductive....possible if communicatoin was better and treatment gentler, as possible, then I would not have that traumitic feeling after birth
Trebuchet · 17/10/2008 21:37

Far as I am aware, the only rates for c sections that have risen are for emergency ones, so how can they be "ridiculously" high?

WinkyWinkola · 17/10/2008 21:41

To the OP, you're absolutely right.

But it's important that women have access to information about the effects for example, an epidural can have on their chances of giving birth vaginally.

It can lead to a cascade of intervention ending up in a C-section because it interferes with the birth hormones and the body's ability to instinctively deal with labour.

Don't forget everybody's different though. Some women have less pain in labour than others. My labours weren't painful per se until the baby was crowning. But of course for other people, it's the most painful thing ever.

I just think it's important to know not only what your options are but that taking pain relief or being induced etc does have an impact on giving birth. Knowing is the most important thing to my mind.

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 17/10/2008 21:41

NYWAY, WHAT i TRIED TO SAY, YOUR ATTITUDE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER...BECAUSE IT AL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU PERCEIVE THINGS AT THAT MOMENT...AND IF LABOUR IS PAINFUL THAN YOU WILL FEEL IT HARDER TO DEAL WITH, FORINSTANCE...OR WHEN THINGS DON'T HAPPEN WHEN THEY SHOULD...oppps sorry bout caps...

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 17/10/2008 21:41

NYWAY, WHAT i TRIED TO SAY, YOUR ATTITUDE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER...BECAUSE IT AL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU PERCEIVE THINGS AT THAT MOMENT...AND IF LABOUR IS PAINFUL THAN YOU WILL FEEL IT HARDER TO DEAL WITH, FORINSTANCE...OR WHEN THINGS DON'T HAPPEN WHEN THEY SHOULD...oppps sorry bout caps...

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 17/10/2008 21:41

NYWAY, WHAT i TRIED TO SAY, YOUR ATTITUDE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER...BECAUSE IT AL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU PERCEIVE THINGS AT THAT MOMENT...AND IF LABOUR IS PAINFUL THAN YOU WILL FEEL IT HARDER TO DEAL WITH, FORINSTANCE...OR WHEN THINGS DON'T HAPPEN WHEN THEY SHOULD...oppps sorry bout caps...

fabsmum · 17/10/2008 22:00

Ho hum

I'm an NCT teacher and I've only come across one low risk mum in my class who wanted an elective section. I contacted the supervisor of midwives at our local hospital on her behalf and supported her to get the section that she felt she couldn't do without.

Other than this one person, all the women who pass through my class would generally prefer an unmedicalised birth if this is possible for them and want to know what they can do to give themselves the best chance of achieving this. Most would also prefer not to have more pain relief than they need.

I really can't see what's controversial about this.

Yes - agree that it would be horrendous to not have access to emergency medicine and antenatal care. Interestingly enough though in places like Chad really basic interventions result in huge falls in maternal and infant deaths: just having access to midwifery care makes a big difference, having good nutrition (the high number of obstructed labours women experience in these places have a lot to do with the fact that many women have had rickets in childhood), encouraging women to delay childbirth until they are out of adolescence, and discouraging the practice of infibulation.

On a personal note: I had complicated 2 complicated pregnancies (gestational diabetes, huge baby, cervical suture), followed by complicated/long labours (ds1 - shoulder dystocia, ds2 - 48 hours in active labour), without pain relief, at home.

And actually I do feel my birth experiences have made me a better person. Not better than other people, just better than I was before. I came out of them feeling stronger in myself - that I'd been through a really challenging experience and I'd coped. It's made me less frightened - of everything.

"That's interesting Pruners, because that's how I feel about medicalised birth. It was horrible, but we came through it unscathed and I'm proud of that. I don't think natural birthers have the monopoloy on feeling like that."

No - I agree. My first birth was very medicalised, but I also found it an emotionally satisfying experience in so many ways, even though, looking back, I felt that the inadequate care I'd had caused most of the problems with my labour that I then needed medical help to overcome.

And I still came out of it wanting to avoid having another medicalised birth if I could for the very simple reason that I felt (and feel) that avoidable medicalisation is unhealthy for mothers and for babies.

I do think there is a massive problem with maternity care in the the UK though. Midwives are indoctrinated to promote normal birth (ie, birth without interventions) - but they simply don't have the professional or institutional resources to make it happen for the majority of women for whom it should - theoretically - be possible. Women are being set up for disappointment, and unfortunately it seems to be the NCT that keeps gets scapegoated for it, for daring to raise their expectations in the first place.

"I had a 9lb first baby with no pain relief. Am I smug? No, because I can no longer cough or laugh without risking peeing myself"

Do you think that if you'd had an epidural it would have made it easier for you to get out a 9lbs baby and left you with less pelvic floor damage? I had an epidural + pethidine followed by a forceps birth with my first 9lbs 6oz baby, and I can tell you that peeing myself when I cough is the least of the problems that I've got with my pelvic floor.

findtheriver · 17/10/2008 22:14

'And actually I do feel my birth experiences have made me a better person. Not better than other people, just better than I was before. I came out of them feeling stronger in myself - that I'd been through a really challenging experience and I'd coped. It's made me less frightened - of everything.'

I could have written that myself!
It sums it up perfectly.

I have never read a thread where anyone says a mother is 'better' for having given birth naturally. I think that's a myth. But I totally agree with fab that a natural birth can make you feel happier and more fulfilled in yourself than you previously felt. I found that experiencing something so extreme, finding that from somewhere inside me I found the strength and emotional energy to deal with it, realising that I could cope with it, and live through it - this had a profound effect on me. It was incredibly empowering.

Why should women not be allowed to say that? It's up to each woman to weigh up the risks of all the options of pain relief and make an informed choice for sure. But I think it's very sad if women who do have natural births somehow feel that they shouldn't be allowed to celebrate that.

fabsmum · 17/10/2008 22:23

"But I think it's very sad if women who do have natural births somehow feel that they shouldn't be allowed to celebrate that"

Not only should you not celebrate - some people feel you should actually apologise.

I've noticed so many women trying to excuse themselves by pointing out that they a) have a very high pain threshold or b) were only in labour for ten minutes and experienced almost no pain.... just in case someone turns around and accuses them of being a NCT storm trooper!

SharpMolarBear · 17/10/2008 22:25

"actually i think if you birth without drugs you are a superstar and deserve to be a bit smug. "
I don't agree, I think you should count your luck (that everything went as it should) and hope it continues. I know that's how births should be, but not all aren't, and I seriously doubt it's down to a lack of positive thinking and breathing through your vagina.
I had a drug free birth, and was calmly and serenely humming all through labour. My evil twin on the other hand was pressing the button and screaming "I want something - NOW!"

AbbeyA · 17/10/2008 22:25

I have had 3 births and each one was easy and the only pain relief was gas and air, there wasn't even time for that on the 3rd! It doesn't make me a better person and I am not stronger or braver. I didn't have a birth plan. I would put it down to luck and having child bearing hips!

SharpMolarBear · 17/10/2008 22:26

I don't mean luck as in this is a lucky happening iyswim, I do believe that most births can be straightforward, however I refuse to believe that if it's not it's somehow down to the woman herself

SharpMolarBear · 17/10/2008 22:27

Yes me too AbbeyA, well child bearing everything really

SharpMolarBear · 17/10/2008 22:28

including my upper arms - if called on to push a child out, I'm sure they could

georgimama · 17/10/2008 22:30

I was in labour for 36 hours. I had no pain relief other than G&A. I had a 3rd degree tear. The obstetrician was sent for, and she was so worried about it she wanted to give me an epidural to stitch it. I convinced her otherwise.

I didn't have an easy fucking time, it hurt like hell. I'm not going to apologise because I had a better time/higher pain threshold than others. I was lucky there were no serious complications, yes, but I don't think I was lucky that I could take normal birth pain - I worked hard!

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