To think that having a drug free natural child birth does not mean you are a better/ stronger person or have more guts

[Reallytired]

Every childbirth experience is different. I am glad that there are options of intervention like caeseran section, drugs for pain relief. It would be horrendous to live somewhere like Chad where maternal death in childbirth is extremely common.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4459880.stm

People forget that modern intervention means living mothers and babies.

I hate it when women who have had an easy birth experience belittle those who had complications. There are no prizes for putting up with pain.

I think its sad when women are bullied against a medicalised birth by NCT types. Sometimes its the best decision.

But did I tell you about my CSs and how I was up and about in a couple of hours, stuffing my face, breastfed for 18 months and 2 years, the boys have never had fizzy drinks.............................................................................................. ............................

All that matters is that you have a healthy baby!!
Does it really matter who is braver?
I wouldn't want to be pregnant again but I would love to give birth again. I found it a wonderful experience.
It is pure luck that they were easy births, I have childbearing hips and I have a fairly high pain threshold.
If I had a complicated birth and narrow hips I may well have needed pain relief-luckily I shall never know!
Everyone should be proud of producing a healthy baby-whatever help they had. Those of us who had an easy time should just accept that we are lucky- and not put it down to being some sort of supermum!

Just wrote a reply to AbbeyA's post, then thought oh bleeagh, if she's not getting it, she's not getting it.
Off to change into my "Supermum" costume, and wave my "lucky" wand.

But not everyone who had a natural birth had an easy time, AbbeyA, I wish you would stop trying to convince everyone here who did have a drug free birth that it must therefore by default have been easy if they could have it without drugs. Mine wasn't easy, findtheriver's wasn't easy, hatrick's doesn't sound easy either.

Having your experience belittled either way is hurtful, and it is the women who had drug free births who are being belittled on this thread, and then accused of belittling others.

Obviously yet another thing I have to apologise for on MN, like find BFing "easy" and working full time. I'm starting to have had enough of this place tbh.

I am not belittling anyone. Everyone should congratulate themselves for a healthy birth. Why have we got some sort of pecking order for who was better at it?
Perhaps we should have badges made saying 'my birth was difficult and agonising but I didn't have pain relief- aren't I clever!!'
Does it matter?

tuttifrutti - I agree that the length of labour makes a big difference. Anyone can be stoical for less than 12 hours as I was. It hurt like hell, as labour generally does, but things were progressing fairly quickly. If at the end of 12 hours if the mw had said I was 2cms dilated instead of 'I can see the babies head' I suspect my stoicism would have given way to pleading for drugs.

However like Hatrick I do object a little to that 'not being put to the test' thing . It still hurts you know.

There isn't a pecking order. I'm not trying to create one - that would be ridiculous.

If it doesn't matter, as you say, why do you say we must have found it easy? You may genuinely have found your deliveries easy, if so I am really pleased about that, but I didn't. I am proud of myself and I'm not going to be told I shouldn't be, or that I was just lucky. I was partially lucky, that there were no complications, but the rest was down to me.

'Everyone should be proud of producing a healthy baby-whatever help they had" or no 'help' at all..but yet those who did not have pain relief were told they ought to lie about it by another poster, so as not to offend anyone else....

and for the millionth time, it is not just a healthy baby taht matters, how the baby got her is vitally important

otherwise we would not be having this discussion!!

AbbeyA - with respect, you seem to be ignoring what people are saying!!

Ok, you believe that your births were easy, and that may be the reason you didn't need much pain relief. That may well be the case. (Although equally, you may have an extraordinarily high pain threshold, and what you describe as easy might be another woman's nightmare).

But many other women who had births without pain relief did not necessarily have an easy time. I wouldn't describe my natural births as easy, particularly the first one. I found the pain excruciating. The only thing that can be clearly measurable is the length of labour - some women may have a 3 hour one, some 30 hours. But even then, you can't for certain say that a shorter labour is less painful. Pain can't be measured objectively - we all know individually what we felt, and it's not helpful for someone to come along and say that it's all down to luck and having an 'easy' labour!

"I was partially lucky, that there were no complications, but the rest was down to me. "

No complications = easy delivery

Get real georgimama.

I am lucky in that with my son I had no complications, except for his hand coming out first and being in labour for 33 hours. My luck was having an excellent midwife and obstrictian which made it possible for me to have a safe vaginal delivery without instruments.

If the baby's foot had come out first, I don't think it would have made me a lesser woman.

"and for the millionth time, it is not just a healthy baby taht matters, how the baby got her is vitally important"

Why do you see it as important? Do you remember being born? Why is it important how the baby gets there? Who honestly cares provided that both mother and baby are well. Many women who don't have natural births are happy. Be happy for them.

I have no idea how other people perceive pain so quite possibly I am really brave!
To get back to the OP, which we seem to have lost sight of, YANBU.
Women shouldn't be made to feel that they failed because they didn't have an 'ideal' birth. How the baby got there is not vitally important to anyone, except the mother concerned (if it is the sort of thing that bothers them).

I agree really tired-I couldn't care less how the baby gets here as long as mother and baby are well and healthy afterwards. Its what you do with the baby once it is here that matters.

"Women shouldn't be made to feel that they failed because they didn't have an 'ideal' birth. How the baby got there is not vitally important to anyone, except the mother concerned (if it is the sort of thing that bothers them). "

I agree completely. If it does seriously bother them then they need some councelling or professional birth debriefing. They need to build their confidence and believe that when things don't go to plan not to blame themselves.

Parenting very rarely goes to plan and life is constantly adapting.

no I don;t remember my own birth

i remember very vividly, the births of my own two children, the emergecny c.s that triggered my hideous PND, and my VBAC that in contrast was such a wondrous experience.

one mother, two veyr different births, two totally different experiences, that have changed my life in different ways.

i thikn you are being deliberately obtuse

I am utterly delighted for every woman who had a wonderful delivery, be it at home, hospital, with drugs, without, by VB or c,section

but it is naive to ingnore all those who aren;t happy with the way the baby arrived adn to prtend it does not matter
'Many women who don't have natural births are happy. Be happy for them.' i never made a differentiation between natural births or otherwise
some women have had very quick, natural labours, the speed of which has left them traumatised

some have long slow and complicated labours that leave them exhausted and sad

some have long labour then need forceps or c.s and find it really distressing

i have contact with lots of women who ar traumatised by the birth and are therefore not happy... which is the point i have been making over and over..you say who cares as long as both mother and baby are well, i am saying many women are not well after the birth and that is who i am talking about, not those who are satisfied with the mode of delivery whichever format it takes

abbeya, you might not care less, a lot of women do care.

There's not easy and then unthinkably painful, supportive birth and not enough staff, if you went without pain releif qui simply it meant you could, however you look at it....... and others could not. There's no question of ease just one is doable and one is not, the confidence to continue without pain relief and the acceptance that you cannot.

But you can get postnatal depression even if you have a good birth experience and breastfeeding goes well.

I was almost the textbook ideal mother when my son was born. I was exclusively breastfeeding, my son was putting on weight, I had even had a good birth experience and I was back to wearing size 10 clothes before I left the hospital. However things were just too perfect.

For me and a fair proportion of mums postnatl depression was purely hormonal, there was no rational reason. Shit just sometimes happens.

I think they care so much because they have an 'ideal' plan of labour. If you imagine that it is going to be cosy with low music etc and a wonderful bonding experience with DP and it turns out not to be, then you are going to be disappointed.
It really isn't important in the grand scheme of things, probably counselling would help.
I have never heard any DC hold it against a mother that they didn't have a drug free, natural birth.It doesn't bother me what sort of birth my mother had with me, she was a very good mother. If she was getting upset because she 'failed'to give birth to her satisfaction, I would think she was very odd and should 'let go' of the past.

'Many women who don't have natural births are happy. Be happy for them.'

Who, ReallyTired, has said that they aren't happy for them???

This is what's really frustrating about this thread. It seems that a few people are determined to put words into the mouths of other people.

The important thing is for a woman to feel comfortable with the choices she made and the birth she had. My SIL had the most medicalised birth imaginable - she insisted on an epidural as soon as she arrived at hospital with fairly mild contractions because she was very scared of pain and knew that this was right for her.

A woman who wants a drug free birth, and achieves it, is also going to feel that she has had the birth that's right for her.

Of course, in the wider scheme of things, how the baby arrives is not the most important thing. I needed a Csection for dc2 because this was the safest form of delivery for her. Therefore, I felt that this was the right thing for that particular birth.

It still remains true for many women though that having a natural birth makes them feel extremely good about themself, and it can make them feel more confident. Why should anyone feel that this means belittling other people? It's a ridiculous attitude to have. It's a bit like saying someone who gets a Maths degree shouldn't be allowed to feel pleased and confident about themself. Maybe it was easier for them to achieve it than it would be for someone else because they are born with more of a natural flair for maths. Maybe they got it through sheer hard work and determination. Maybe there's an element of luck because they can afford to do a degree rather than work full time!!
But to say that they shouldn't feel empowered by it would be a ludicrous thing to say.

Why should childbirth be any different??

YES lulu, you are so right. I don't want anyone implying that I shouldn't feel bad for the births I wasn't happy with.

I matter too.

I don't want to have to pretend my views are not that important and that my babies are all that matter.

That's such utter wishy washy bollocks, sorry, but it is and I know a huge number of women for whom HOW they feel about the delivery of their babies matters to them very much.

Don't get me started.

"No complications=easy delivery"? Maybe, maybe not.

No complications, mother expressly says she found it easy = easy delivery? YES!

No complications, lots of pain, mother says she found it v painful and not easy, but still wanted to do it without drugs= easy delivery? NO.

And to insist that the last is easy IS belittling someone's experience.

WHY is it so hard to understand that?

yes i know that reallytired

i am relating my own personal experience

and talking about women i have had contact with, many of whom have PTSD or PND attibutable, in part , if not whole to their birth and post natal experiences.

do you see what i mean though?

it is when the mother is not happy post birth , regardless of mode of delivery, that i am talking about