To think that having a drug free natural child birth does not mean you are a better/ stronger person or have more guts

[Reallytired]

Every childbirth experience is different. I am glad that there are options of intervention like caeseran section, drugs for pain relief. It would be horrendous to live somewhere like Chad where maternal death in childbirth is extremely common.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4459880.stm

People forget that modern intervention means living mothers and babies.

I hate it when women who have had an easy birth experience belittle those who had complications. There are no prizes for putting up with pain.

I think its sad when women are bullied against a medicalised birth by NCT types. Sometimes its the best decision.

Twelvelegs, I personally love to stop mothers, complete strangers, in the street and tell them that I had no pain relief for my labour. Similarly, at parties, I make a point of slipping into conversation, apropos of nothing, that my birth was drug-free. I'm just desperate for that extra validation.

Sorry. I do realise you were giving a genuine opinion, but it was so that I couldn't resist the above.

So women that have had pain relief are allowed to tell their birth stories, but women who haven't, can't?
I'm not anti-Csection, or anti-pain relief, btw - that would be way too generalised. And totally agree with mybabywakesupsinging wrt pain thresholds.

I know a few people who've had c-sections or epidurals when they'd planned natural births & felt very negative about themselves. So maybe it's not that people who give birth naturally feel superior but that some women who don't get the birth they'd planned assume that's the case because of how they feel.

'Sad, sad, sad, competing over who's birth experience makes them a better person.'

Yes, but as you are the person who keeps bringing this up, perhaps you need to address this to yourself.

For the Millionth time... no one who has had a natural birth has posted on this thread to say that they think they are a better person than anyone else.

A lot of people have posted to say that giving birth naturally enabled them to feel positive and great about THEMSELF.
I am one of those people, and it is my right to say so!!

I'm beginning to feel that Claire 236 is right - I think some people who weren't happy with their own birth are projecting their negative feelings onto other people!!

'Sad, sad, sad, competing over who's birth experience makes them a better person.'

Yes, but as you are the person who keeps bringing this up, perhaps you need to address this to yourself.

For the Millionth time... no one who has had a natural birth has posted on this thread to say that they think they are a better person than anyone else.

A lot of people have posted to say that giving birth naturally enabled them to feel positive and great about THEMSELF.
I am one of those people, and it is my right to say so!!

I'm beginning to feel that Claire 236 is right - I think some people who weren't happy with their own birth are projecting their negative feelings onto other people!!

I didn't have drugs and do not feel confident or empowered at all. Just scared that I'll have to go through it again at some point.

Believe me, I wanted an epidural but due to the nhs not having enough money to pay for more than one f**king aneasthetist (sp?) at night I couldn't have one. I do not boast about having a "natural" birth. I try not to talk or think about it at all tbh, which I think is very sad.

Your birth experience is as valid as everyone else's LaVie. Not talking about the birth is fine (why should you?) unless you feel that actually you would be better off talking about it, in which case some kind of debriefing could maybe help.

The point is, all women are different, and whereas many women feel empowered by a drug free birth, others don't. That's fine.
What isn't ok is that you feel scared to go through childbirth again because you're not sure whether you'll be able to get an epidural. Which is a serious issue about staffing in hospitals.
But that's a separate issue from the thread here.

I'm wondering who asks what pain relief people have?
'So why shouldn't women who have maybe had an equally painful birth but feel good about it not express their feelings too?' That's it in a nutshell..... it is probably not equally painful.

Of course to express words like prie in the context of childbirth and relating to the amount of pain relief is saying, without question, I would not have been as proud as if I had had a few drugs. And as we are measuring 'childbirth' as a common theme it does create a pecking order.

Actually, I don't care about other peoples birth experiences and rarely ask, except out of politeness... since having my first when it really was exciting.

The word was pride BTW!!!

You don't care about other people's birth experiences twelvelegs, but you clearly care anough to try to make judgements about pain levels!!

How about if you've got a plaster allergy that causes your skin to bubble and blister and peel off in great weeping chunks (so no taped-on epidural), blood pressure that drops through the floor at the slightest whiff of any sort of anaesthesia, with resulting shock and shivering and vomiting and a history of surgeries for period-related complications and prescription drugs for the monthly pain?

Am I allowed to try for a natural birth and be relieved I managed it because the alternative would have been incredibly distressing?

Or do I have to be quiet and not say that I enjoyed giving birth in case it upsets someone?

I'm not smug about it - incredibly relieved, yes. Proud of myself because I coped (DS1 was back-to-back and had he taken much longer to be born, things might have been different), but not dismissive of those who choose a different route. What would be the point of that?

Exactly hunker. You should be proud of yourself, you are absolutely allowed to be, and don't let anyone tell you differently.

I don't mind when other women say that they feel proud that they had a drug free birth, I feel envious! And slightly worried that my pain threshold is negligible!

I did however get pissed off with a friend who kept saying how she didn't understand why I wouldn't want to do it again straight away (this was 1 week after I had given birth) She apparently would.

Yes love, because you had an epidural after the first contraction and felt no pain at all after that! I'd do it again straight away if that had been my experience!

Thanks, FTR - I won't let anyone tell me otherwise, don't worry

I'm envious of people who got through their 20s without needing surgery for periods, frankly. Without needing prescription painkillers that knocked them out for a week each month but didn't actually do much other than take the edge off the pain. For people whose insides didn't resemble a spider's web, people who could turn over in bed without crying out in pain because their bowel was stuck to their bladder and their overy with adhesions.

So I'm bloody well going to be glad that I had a drug-free birth, because after being told I couldn't have children when I was 22 because my insides were such a fucking mess, I'm just impressed my body can do something right.

twelvelegs, I don't think anyone is relating pride to the amount of pain relief.
Many (but not all) are saying that having been through a labour and birth without medical pain relief, they felt a sense of pride in themselves, for THAT labour, and it made them happy.
Obviously, there is no parallel universe to allow them to compare the exact same labour, one using pain relief and one not. They just experienced what they experienced, and then felt about it as they felt about it afterwards. Same as anyone. How is that a problem? How does that create a pecking order?
And people don't ask specifically about pain relief, they just compare birth experiences, of which pain/pain relief forms a part.

Sorry, to make my last post a bit clearer:

People might go through labour and birth without pain relief, either as a choice, or because labour was so fast there wasn't time, or because pain relief was medically dangerous for them. Their possible pride afterwards isn't directly related to pain relief (ie: i had none, therefore I am superwoman), but usually due to the usual joy and relief regardless of birth, gobsmacking amazement that their bodies could did it, and a healthy level of fabulous endorphins.

"that statement basically says that people who have pain relief are not stoical. So if someone endures 36 hrs of labour with no pain relief then has an epidural they are, according to you "not stoical"."

Sorry - but I really, really can't see the connection between my comment about knobbly feet and your insistence as to what you think I'm actually saying re: epidurals.

Actually I'm not sure you really know what you're trying to say!

Never mind. It's Sunday morning - relax!

I think it does depend how you feel about it.

I was meant to have an all natural homebirth with just a bit of gas and air. DS was back to back and when I wasn't getting very far after 26 hours I had my waters broken by MWs as I just wanted it over. There was a lot of blood so I was ambulanced to hospital. I asked for more drugs but was refused as it was really too late and eventually did give birth with just gas and air.

I felt like a failure as I hadn't had my homebirth, had waters broken despite feeling I should have known better (having read a lot about cascade of intervention) and asking for more drugs.

I think in the early days afterwards I came across as horrendously smug because I had to emphasize the back to back, only gas and air bit so I didn't curl up in a ball and start crying about the bits that didn't go well.

Then I met someone else who had a back to back baby who had unsupportive midwives who basically told her that she could have a go at giving birth naturally but it was unlikely to work. She ended up with a CS and then couldn't establish bfing because of being stuck in hospital with no help or support.

I've since come to terms with the whole thing more. I know I was in some respects lucky - I had good midwives, some unlucky - back to back despite living on birthing ball and spending a lot of time on all fours, made some good decisions - staying at home as long as possible, not having pain relief early, some poor decisions - having waters broken. I can look at the whole thing in a more balanced way and I'm far more careful about coming across as smug as it could, very easily, have been different.

I don't think anyone should be smug, it could well have been different, they just weren't tested.

Ok Ok ladies... I think I have the answer to keep Twelvelegs, mummiesnet et al happy..

I'm going to rewrite my birth story:

I gave birth naturally to my first baby. The labour was pretty long, 30 hours or so, with a second stage of over two hours. Of course, I was able to give birth naturally because it didn't hurt much. Dunno why, maybe I'm just physiologically different to other women. As for crowning, nah, of course it wasn't excruciating - maybe I've got no nerve endings around my fanjo or summat, because when I tore I didn't feel a thing. Natural childbirth? - piece of cake! Course I don't feel proud or empowered by the experience - why should I, I mean natural birthers just don't feel pain, dontcha know?!

There, maybe they'll be content now

Worth noting that some people who come across as smug can just be over-compensating for a feeling of having 'failed'.

Obviously some people are just smug bitches

"I know a few people who've had c-sections or epidurals when they'd planned natural births & felt very negative about themselves. So maybe it's not that people who give birth naturally feel superior but that some women who don't get the birth they'd planned assume that's the case because of how they feel."

I personally think that the experience of vaginal birth is woven into the experience of normal maternity, just like breastfeeding or conceiving normally. If I couldn't conceive naturally, have given birth vaginally or have breastfed I'm sure I would have felt a sense of sadness and disappointment at some level - grieved for what I'd not had. At the same time I'm sure I would have been overwhelmingly grateful for having a healthy baby and being a mother as this is the point of the whole exercise!

I think the problem is that we're somehow not allowed to grieve for the aspects of normal maternity that we miss out on - or rather they're simply not acknowledged as being of any importance to us or to our babies. That's what's behind the 'well the main thing is that you've got a healthy baby comments' and the 'it's not the end of the world if you can't breastfeed'. People mean well but it's not helpful to have your feelings dismissed in this way.

I think the implication that grates on some people is "I coped with the pain where many couldn't" Maybe that isn't implied at all but it does seem that way unfortunately.

It's clearly grating with the people who choose to read that into it SMB. No one has actually said that at all.

Well - some people cope really well with four children whereas I struggle with three.

Some people cope better with sleeplessness, hunger, cold or tiredness than others

AND, obviously, some people cope better with pain than other people.

Why is is politically incorrect to acknowledge this?

It isn't politically incorrect, that's a bit silly.