to find a man who coudlnt drive UTTERLy unattractive

[NotCod]

and rather pathetic

yadaydayd meddical expcetiosn etc

But UnquietDad, I think the majority of women think male strippers look really funny, even if the individual is quite hot, whereas men genuinely go phwooar over female strippers (who are usually nurses, or female police officers).

Think the baying mob of an audience in the final scene of "The Full Monty".

Sorry, UQD, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I honestly think 'pathetic' when I find out that a (able bodied, healthy, non-phobic!) man can't drive. Actually, I think it's fairly pathetic to never have learned to drive whatever sex you are, unless you have suffered from severe financial hardship preventing you fro taking lessons.

It is a life skill in the modern world - the real world, not the world where everyone cycles down country lanes grinning like loons . It's like learning to use a computer. It's not a necessity of 'oxygen, food, shelter' proportions, but it is a pretty good thing to know how to do. It says 'I am capable and independent' to me.

Anyway, I have bored on about men and cars for far too long today. If you're happy not knowing how to drive / with your husband not knowing how to drive, good luck to you.

Noddyholder: I deny the BS accusation!

Personal taste, yes, but not BS.

UQD: what's sexy about driving? Well... gear sticks, for one (automatics are Not Sexy).

I also like powerful men (though would draw the line at anyone who voted Lib Dem or Labour, regardless of how powerful they were - those things are even more unsexy than automatic cars).

But I obviously have a bit of a gender problem, as I am planning to have a whole collection of huge and fast cars myself when I am rich and famous, to my husband's horror. Never mind the fact that we walk everywhere...

It amuses me that some people on here are a) thinking nothing of their sexist assumptions, b) unable to see the irony of being car-worshipping idiots in an age when people are actually trying to cut down their carbon emissions, c) unbothered about coming across as simpering vacuous "little women" like something out of the 1950s, and d) not considering the possibility that these oh-so-macho men who DRIVE (it somehow demands to be written in capitals) could well be compensating for other areas by being Big Driving Man.

I am not really including Cod in this as she is a mischievous stirrer and should knwo betrer (sic).

Still laughing myself silly at the idea of the male strippers.

Dott! ... you are a Tory!

UnquietDad, you can't mean me, can you? [gasp]

Not talking about anyone in particular - just the general tone here...

Just that I admitted to sewing and knitting, you see....

ah, I see!

coppertop's point (several pages back) is a very good one too. It is actually a good thing that some people don't drive, because if everyone did then the roads would be even more hideously clogged and there would be even more people for the drivers to swear at.

I fear this thread is only two moves away from a Real Men Don't Drink Wine or a Real Men Don't Do The Washing.

UnquietDad had a bang on the head and woke up in 1973. Is he mad, in a coma or just a bit pissed off?

This thread is quite an eye opener. Am amazed that DH is being written off as 'pathetic' because he chooses not to drive.

Real men grunt and smell. Ugg. I want.

"I think it's fairly pathetic to never have learned to drive whatever sex you are..."

and

"It is a life skill in the modern world - the real world"

Here's me feeling pretty proud of myself for running my own household on my own (yes all of it and blardy hell it's knackerising), y'know... paying bills, budgeting, shopping, housework, decorating, diy...plus working full time and bringing up my son..all on my own...all of that stuff and yet...

I can't drive. Therefore I must not be "capable and independent"

Actually, isn't this just so much middle class status obsessed wanky-bollocks? I mean really?

UQD: If I am among those who are "unable to see the irony of being car-worshipping idiots in an age when people are actually trying to cut down their carbon emissions", I would counter that maybe you are simply unable to see the irony in this thread!

I do make a point of simpering and looking vacuous when I walk to school/the shops/anywhere within four miles of home (as I always do), though.

Sometimes the things that people find sexy aren't the same as the things they practice in real life, you know.

MrsMattie - I am so sorry. Toryism isn't something I normally admit to so obviously, but when it comes to what's sexy and what isn't, Michael Portillo is God. And if he's driving an Aston Martin, he is God squared!

UQD, methinks you are taking this a tad personally?! You seem very angry about it. Some people, eh...let me see...

a) I don't think I am making sexist assumptions by being honest about what I think is sexy / not sexy. i find capable, confident m,en sexy. To me, driving is inexplicably linked with a man being independent, self reliant, in control of his own destiny. Not PC? I'm so terribly sorry to offend you, but sometimes what one finds sexy isn't PC. It doesn't make me a raving self-hating anti-feminist!

b) I am not a car worshipper or an idiot (thanks!). I just don't like being dependent, reliant, incapable of mastering a basic skill myself and wouldn't find a man who was like this attractive, either. I actually walk almost everywhere and have made conscious life choices that mean i won't have to drive / rely on my husband to drive - such as choosing a school for our kids within walking distance and looking at working near to our home.

c) I'm a strapping 6 foot lass with a mouth like a foghorn and, until SAHM-dom came calling, a stonking great career. Nobody ever mistook me for simpering or vacuous.

d) I fail to see how people who use taxis or cadge lifts off other people are cutting down on their carbon emissions. Public transport - fair enough. I support people relying on this more heavily and , in fact, I use it regularly or more often than not walk. i still want to be able to know how to drive, though.

e) My husband doesn't need to compensate for anything .

Re: Male strippers. Fake tan and waxed chests don't do it for me, even if they drive a friggin' porsche.

"If public transport were better nobody would need to drive"

Isn't that the point? PT isn't better and at this rate, it's never going to be. PT is shit. It's incredibly expensive once there is more than one person using it and it is no good if you are carrying loads.

I think it's OK if a man can't drive because he has actively chosen not to, because he cycles and is a rambler and believes in the great outdoors and is a passionate anti-car person (and has an excellent arse due to cycling). If it's just because he's a lazy incompetent scaredy-cat who isn't ashamed to rely on other people driving him, then yeah, he's deeply unattractive. Just like a man who can't be bothered to learn how to use the washing machine.

Oh please, not the 'middle class' thing again!

I think people claim irony when they know they have been busted and want to backtrack, TBH.

Oddly enough I have made "life choices" too MrsM. But I don't feel the need to come on here and berate car-drivers about theirs, until they start having a go at me.

And it's not a basic skill. To call it one is to misunderstand what basic skills actually are, and to buy into the car-centric society.

I love you too UQD. Consider yourself as having a fan club.

The idea that being able to drive is an essential life skill is laughable. The longer this thread goes on the more I become that neither myself or DH will ever sit behind a wheel. On flaming principle.

All this driving dependency is completely bizarre.

feeling the lurve.

Really I think you are just offended that Cod doesn't fancy you because you can't drive

FWIW I am not anti-car. I just see them as a tool, like the washing-machine. I fail to see why people get so excited about them and think they (or their drivers) are sexy.

dh is an excellent driver (we are car-free, but sometimes hire cars for long trips and when abroad) and tbh there is something in that, and in his joy in driving, that I do find attractive. Nevertheless, I am entirely with UQD/Janos on this one.

I can't/don't drive (learned years ago, failed once and never bothered retaking), and IMO it is best kept that way as I would undoubtedly be a timid and almost dangerously defensive driver. Which has nothing to do with my personality in other areas. I think nothing of speaking to a room full of people, for example.

In a car-centric society, of course it's a basic skill.

Just as in a literate society, reading is a basic skill.

And in a technical society, knowing how to use a computer is a basic skill.

In short, in our society, things which are totally unnecessary in other societies, are basic skills. And vice versa. Even just 500 years ago, it was a basic skill to be able to tell the difference between masses of herbs for any self-respecting housewife, so that she could use them in cooking and medicine. If you know about 10 of them in our society, you're verging on being a witch. The definition of basic skills changes according to the society you live in.