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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think people who talk about benefit claimaints negatively, but claim Working Tax credits (as do 9 out of ten families with children) are hypocrites

177 replies

harrietanderson · 30/09/2008 13:36

People who talk about benefit claimants and scroungers negatively, but chances are they are claiming Working tax credits themselves are hypocrites.
9 out of 10 families with children qualify for this state benefit but still don't consider themselves to be state/taxpayer supported when in fact they are!

OP posts:
georgimama · 30/09/2008 19:53

I think there was also a married couple's tax allowance in addition to the transferable tax allowance, I could be wrong. The system has been gradually eroded by both parties I think since the l990s, but Labour did the final hatchet job.

EachPeachPearMum · 30/09/2008 20:05

abouteve - no I am pointing out that 90% of families in UK are on less than 58k- considering incomes are at all levels, there must be large numbers who are on considerably less than that, and that is what is worrying.
I am not suggesting that a family with income of 58k would be struggling at the breadline, that would be ridiculous, even with the strain many families are facing currently.

georgimama · 30/09/2008 20:13

OK, going to get flamed, and totally accept that there are a lot of people struggling a lot, but even £58K income for a household means 2 adults earning marginally over national average wage. It sounds like a lot of money, but it's not exactly rolling in it, is it?

princessglitter · 30/09/2008 20:21

yes, but lots of families with children don't have two parents both working fulltime.

mikehunt1 · 30/09/2008 20:24

Haven't read the whole thread, but I'm generally in favour of tax credits as they massively help particularly single mums to keep working, even if only pt, so giving them some independence.

I wish we were entitled, does seem a bit mean that we pay lots of tax into the pot and get zero back.

EachPeachPearMum · 30/09/2008 20:34

Thats society for you though- to each according to his needs, from each according to his ability.
If you earn more, why shouldn't support those who earn less? Society needs care assistants, office cleaners, lavatory attendants just as much as it needs dentists, surgeons, and hedge fund managers.

mikehunt1 · 30/09/2008 20:38

Yes, but we do pay more! Last year we paid, between us, over 80k in income tax alone.

cupsoftea · 30/09/2008 20:42

Many people moan about money going to those they think don't deserve it - when it's a case of need.

EachPeachPearMum · 30/09/2008 20:46

Well- what is wrong with paying more, if you have more income?

EachPeachPearMum · 30/09/2008 20:50

Or perhaps you have never required the services of office cleaners, hospital porters, checkout staff, waiters, university research staff, etc etc?

EachPeachPearMum · 30/09/2008 21:01

As your monthly income (based on your tax for income last year) is actually what the average salary in the UK is per annum after tax and NI, do you really wish you were entitled to tax credits, or are you just trolling?

mikehunt1 · 30/09/2008 21:16

Nah, just having a whinge

Remotew · 30/09/2008 21:50

Don't preach to me over what is a national living wage. I earn one of that below the national average but we survive.

I envy mothers with partners, But then again its a lifestyle choice and I know what I would prefer until the next time I fall in love.

Sorry I'm a bit sozzeled see me other thread.

EachPeachPearMum · 30/09/2008 22:02

Not sure who that was directed at abouteve but appreciate there are extenuating circumstances. Hope you find something soon

Remotew · 30/09/2008 22:10

Thanks love , gennine.

ScottishMummy · 30/09/2008 22:11

we are all state/tax payer supported supported,state paid for my uni education,pays for your NHS/PCT care rtc

a liberal democracy takes direct taxation and redistributes for designated health/social/educational care which we all access

i am happy for my tax to be redistributed on health/social care and go into working tax credit

shame current economic meltdown has not made you more reflective that maybe we are all potentially at risk of losing job/hard times

working tax credit, clue in the title geddit?

onlyjoking9329 · 30/09/2008 22:33

well we live on benefits and have done for years, i get incapacity benefit due to a back problem that several ops haven't fixed, we also have three kids with autism so no childcare around, i now get widowed parents allowance, don't suppose anyone would like to swop?
before my back gave up i did work full time, i won't be able to do paid work again, so am i a benefit scrounger?

Peachy · 30/09/2008 22:35

Funny OJ nobody ated my Carers allowance either....

strange that? LOL

Remotew · 30/09/2008 22:37

Thanks, scummy, we have got it, there are lot of thich tory mnetter that will learn in the end. God I', so pissed I'm opff the tthe garr

onlyjoking9329 · 30/09/2008 22:37

i can't even get carers allowance, i obviously don't care for anyone

Twinklemegan · 30/09/2008 22:43

I'm sure this has been pointed out, the only people on "higher" incomes (above £15k or something?) who claim working tax credits are those getting the childcare element. The rest claim child tax credit - a different beast altogether.

Secondly, I think you'll find that if you earn over that magic £15k those tax credits bring with them no other entitlements whatsoever. No free adult prescriptions, no free school meals, no free training, bugger all in fact.

Thirdly, those who earn very little get back way way more in tax credits than they pay in tax. Therefore you could call it a benefit if you wish. However, although as a family we earn not very much above the WTC threshold, I pay way more in tax than I receive in CTC - therefore it is a tax credit and not a benefit. IMO.

Peachy · 01/10/2008 08:54

'if you earn over that magic £15k those tax credits bring with them no other entitlements whatsoever

not strictly correct, but only if you have qualifying disabled child/ren

georgimama · 01/10/2008 11:35

I think onlyjoking you are going to struggle to find anyone on this thread, or on MN, who has an issue with people with disabilities/carers of people with disabilities being on benefits.

I'm probably the most right wing person on this board, and even I don't have an issue with it. You're trying to start an argument that no one here is going to argue back about.

expatinscotland · 01/10/2008 11:42

if you don't have a disability or a disabled child, then yes, Peachy, you're right, that's the cut off.

and no free prescriptions, free school dinners, vouchers for fruit/veg/milk, council tax benefit and housing benefit drop to little or nothing.

and as that's a gross figure, not including tax or NI, it can indeed make some people better off on benefits.

the personal threshhold is too low adn getting rid of the 10p tax band was a bad move as far as the working poor are concerned.

Bridie3 · 01/10/2008 16:52

I'm right-wing, too, and am grateful I live in civilised country, with benefits for those who genuinely need them.

Which could be ME, or one of my children some day, because bad things can happen to everyone.