To think people who talk about benefit claimaints negatively, but claim Working Tax credits (as do 9 out of ten families with children) are hypocrites

[harrietanderson]

People who talk about benefit claimants and scroungers negatively, but chances are they are claiming Working tax credits themselves are hypocrites.
9 out of 10 families with children qualify for this state benefit but still don't consider themselves to be state/taxpayer supported when in fact they are!

The 9 out of 10 are those who qualify for Child Tax Credit.

Working Tax Credit is for those who work, but are also on a low income.

IIRC

what about child benefit? everyone with a kid can get this regardless of income

I don't think it can be true that 9 out of 10 families in this country has an income of less than £15,000. Can it? Surely not.

I think the correct stat is that 9 out of 10 families qualify for child tax credits (max income £40,000 IIRC).

Working Tax Credit in general is a means for the government to weasel out of forcing employers to pay a living wage and taxing the working poor at the point of earnings in order to shove more into the Treasury and earn interest on it rather than taxing people less in the first place.

Not to mention the job creation in the public sector to provide the staff needed for administering these schemes, expat.

Yes, WTC is not the same as CTC, although the same form is used to apply for both.

The WTC threshhold is indeed around £15,000/pa - that's total earnings, too, peeps, even if both of you is working.

Indeed, georgi, and the £1bn worth of errors the TCO made last year alone - it was £2bn/annum for several years running.

They also cost about £580m to administer last year.

georgimama - i think it's childrens tax credit that replaced the married couple thing?

OP - Presume you mean 9 out of 10 families with children claim childrens tax credit?

Either way, i'll look down my nose at anyone, benefit claimer or otherwise, i'm non discriminatory like that

I don't think the fact that it is a top up makes it okay.
It is a little like: "I don't claim quite as much money from the State as you do, that makes you the scrounger"
NHS etc is not a benefit in the same sense as getting money paid into one's bank to live on.

ps What difference does it make if this is my first post It is hardly an extremely controversial or ludicrous topic that I've posted.

Harriet, being on a tight deadline is not excuse for not doing your homework!

Tut.

Your editor may be most displeased.

I assume you're away taking notes.

You're right Tam, that's what I meant, sorry.

yeah the child benefit thing - my mother was always of the opinion that we shouldn't even discuss it - dont let the govt have anything to do with it - once they start deciding who can have it and who can't - then it all gets fucked up

i see her POV - however i think that if you earn a collective of 50K or more - you dont need it

but one set of people get up n a morning and do a hard days work for their money

bring in workfare i say

no help for people who have more than three kids

some people get looked down on for shopping in Primark.

or for not being very green/driving a car.

or for smoking, which is really horrible and tantamount to child abuse.

or for being widows instead of just having split from a husband or partner.

or for not buying the latest cereal, credit crunch.

that's the world for ya.

Harriet, did you read the posts about married couples' tax allowance and transferable tax allowances being scrapped and replaced with CTC?

That's why these aren't top ups or benefits (although I agree they are presented as such - they aren't, and some people are worse off than they would have been under the old system, like any household with an income of more than £40,000 for example). It's the tax payers own money coming back to them.

What are these benefits that 9/10 people allegedly claim??

It's a tax CREDIT--ie, they're giving you back the tax you would otherwise pay.

Not the same.

I don't think people should assume that anyone who gets benefits is automatically a scrounger. If people look down their noses at people on benefits, then I think that is the problem. Whether or not those same people get WTC or CTC or Child Benefit is irrelevant.

But I think there is a difference between people who are trying to get out of dependence on benefits by working, and getting WTC or CTC to make that possible, and those who do not choose to work even though they are capable of it. The benefits system should be there as a safely net for those who can't earn through working, and those who can work should have incentives to encourage them to do so.

AFAIK the WTC/CTC was brought in to deal with the situation where people were worse off if they tried to work than if they gave up and didn't bother, which is of no help to them or to the country in general.

Of course claiming benefits when you need to is not wrong anyway. However some people say "ah but if you hadn't had that other child, if you'd trained for a career, didn't spend money on TVs, fags, beer etc then you wouldn't need it"

That you can turn back on tax credit recipents (only the whingers) because they could have avoided needing tax credits the same way. It works for working child benefit recipents too. I never hear of any refusing to collect it just because tax payers are paying for it.

Of course the best response to a mean spirited, whinger who thinks the unemployed should be left to starve is to pour a bucket of cold water over them. They don't really deserve a proper response.

"no help for people who have more than three kids"

well thank god I only had 3 children when my marriage broke down - don't you think that it's bit broad sweeping to say simply "no help for people who have more than 3 children"??

"Tax credit is just the tax you have paid being returned to you" ----but not all of us have some of our tax returned to us, that is what makes it a benefit.

ps Expat - MN are welcome to check my account. It will stand up to scrutiny I assure you. Now if you don't mind, I think you've already made the same comment more than once.

I don't know a single person who chooses to live on benefits when they are actually capable of holding down a proper job. I certainly don't believe that people like that make up anything like the majority of benefits claimants.

Are 9 out of 10 really entitled to it? Do you not mean child tax credit. This number seems high for WTC.

I heard something on Radio 2 a while ago stating 75% of people were entitled to free prescriptions.....surlely this is wrong also?