To get really tough because DS1 wants to treat me like a freakin idiot

[shinyshoes]

I'm am sick of DS1 behaviour recently, (loads of posts on it)

He's in a bnew school now, new leaf, he was grounded for ALL of the 6 weeks holiday, we are taking baby steps with him, and today was going to be the first time out for christ knows how long. I have told him to clean his room, I want it spotless, I'm not convinced it's a typical 11 year old thing anymore as I know loads that dontbehave like him.

He is generally a good kid but has a short fuse, pushes me by going on and on and on and on and fights with his brother and throws things round the room knowing his sister is asleep in the next room.

I told him if his room is spotless he can go out and I mean SPOTLESS, it's his responsibilty to keep it tidy. I have gone up there and told him no chnaces if it isn't immaculate he wont be going out.
Low and behold its fucking disgusting. He keeps treating me like a fucking ididot. He isnt going out, I will show him that the reigns will be pulled in veeeery tightly until he shows respect for me and everyone else.

(this isnt because a room werent tidy, it's to do with alot of things that have happened over the last few months and It's about treating the house with respect, treating himself respectfully and not treating me like a mug)

I show him nothing but respect, love, kindness, I listen to him and his opinions but yet he still acts arrogant.

Its the arrogance that bothers me the most

AIBU To keep him in after I specifically asked him to tidy it up and not make arrangements to go out til it was immaculate.

(his mate is on his way round now)

don't think yabu, you parent, he child, he does as you say and thats that!

if you give in now where will you be 3 years on??

know its not easy, good luck

Good lord Shiny.

I swear on my life that is exactly how it is here.

I have no clue how to make it better but after 9.5 yrs of being a parent I bought my first parenting book the other day.

I'll end up beating him to death with it if things don't change here soon....

He's generally a good kid but he was grounded for the WHOLE 6 week summer holiday? I'm not surprised you've got problems

sit down today, whole family. Tlk about some ground rules - all of you participate in discussion and all of you agree on some basic rules. Write 'Golden Rules' out and stick on wall. Adhewre to them. Reward if rules are kept weekly.
Sometimes children need some control given to them in order for them to accept your control IYSWIM.

Hello Shiny, stay strong, I've been having problems with my 12 year old like this. He's played up every year he's been at school, (thinking it's where he goes to socialise and the teachers are evil for disputing that, plus, I must be the devil for areeing with them!) He argues about everything, his homework is always a sore subject and when asked to do anything he just floats off and doesn't bother hoping that we'll forget and he'll get away with not doing what he's been asked to. It's not right to have to follow him around and coach him step by step what he's to do but I'm starting to think I have to! I think it's purely a way of getting our undivided attention and their sadistic sides enjoying watching their mothers getting frustrated beyond belief! You're not alone, my friend's daughter is like this too and she's only 8 :/

i,m having the same sort of problems with my 15 yr old i,ve just grounded him for a month for numberous things
don,t let him out ! stick to you guns !!

My 12 and 10 year old sons would have difficulties in making their rooms "SPOTLESS" without a bit of guidance, eg: me asking them to put their clothes away first, then stripping their beds, then hoovering.

You sound at the end of your tether, but maybe your approach comes across to him as being a bit confrontational?

6 weeks is a very long time to be grounded, what did he do?

Maybe you could break down the chores into smaller tasks, and praise him as he completes each one?

I think that you need to sit down as a family and agree some ground rules. Listen to him as well as tell him things.
Let some things go but make sure that you keep in the important things. My DSs rooms are a mess. I close the door on it and don't go in but they are not expected to mess up the rest of the house.
You seem to be on a downward spiral, if you ground for too long it is counter productive, they can't see the end so there is no incentive to improve.
I would reward the positive and try and ignore the negative, as much as possible.

Avoid confrontation-it is difficult to win. Much better to find a subtle way around it.

Sorry but it sounds like you are being really really harsh.

Why's it so important that his room is spotless? Reasonably tidy, fine, but it's his personal space and I think you have to respect that.

6 weeks grounding is well OTT imo.

if he has been grounded for 6 weeks then it sounds like he has lost any motivation.

i don't think many 11 year old boys would be able to produce a spotless bedroom either.

i totally understand that you need to show him who is the boss-at this age it is really important.However i'm not entirely sure you are going about it the right way.

i have a feeling he KNEW he wasn't going to be allowed out-that he couldn't achieve the task set and so he is being arrogant to cover up iyswim.

i love the idea of sitting down and the whole family together setting the family rules. give him some say in it. talk to each other about what you feel is important and why.
and then have a fresh start. allow him out and any sanctions are based on the new rules you have established together?

and saying 'spotless' is so subjective too.
saying to him 'i want the clothes put away, the laundry in the basket, the books on the shelf and the tooys in the box' would be much more effective.

Agree that 'spotless' is unrealistic. I couldnt make my own bedroom spotless.
And if I grounded my ds for 6 weeks I think he'd have done a runner by now.

agree with TMMJ on this one. sometimes the dc's just get to the point of why bother, I'm always in troule/ grounded etc.

Have a family chat, ask what he would like life to be like. Give him choices make family rules up. try and reward good behaviour no matter how small and stick to it on a united front.

I DS2 is difficult.. he has a strong will. I told him he needed to do 30 mins study before playing on computer games, or no computer games.. he told me I was bribing him and put up a strong arguement. I told him I was giving him a choice.. and he could make a decision either way. He stomped and cried and sulked. and then came over with his books.. did the study and went on his comp games. I said " nice choice mate.. now you can do what you please with your time.. that was easy wasn't it"

Given a choice.. they do tend to go for the easiest option .. where they also get what they want... but they make the decision on it. It works on most things as well. Sounds easy written down.. but it's hard to let them make a choice and stick to the consiqueneces when your at the end of your tether! .. but it's less tiring saying it once and leaving it up to them, rather than having constant battles.!!

agree with TMMJ and mumblechum

you sound so veyr angry, and that nothing he could do would be up to your standard

re your other thread.. did you pursue anything to do with possible dyspraxia etc....

are you sure he interprets being grounded for 6 weeks as 'love , respect and kindness'

sounds like impossibly high standards and harsh punishments are conspiring to create a very tense household

grounding for 6 weeks means grounding loses it's power.. why be good when you are grounded for eternity anyway

My ds is very similar, but I have discovered that not only are his ideas about anything and everything different to mine, but that he also has the memory of a goldfish.

If I ask him to tidy his room, it will not get done unless I remind him once every, say, 3 minutes His idea of spotless is "hide all the crap in the wardrobe" so I never ask for it otherwise I know I will be the disappointed one.

As far as room clearing is concerned, every couple of months, he and I do it together and we have a grand clear out. Then I bully encourage him to tidy on a daily basis, so that it does not get too bad.

If it gets too bad, I think he just gets overwhelmed by it all.

I also try to offer rewards, rather than impose sanctions.

Ime with a strong willed child (& I was one too) if you get to confrontation and dig in your heels, then they will dig theirs in too. I remember messing up my room just to wind up my mum. Sounds like you're at stalemate.

I like the idea of sitting down as a family and talking through some ground rules. 'How to talk so kids will listen' suggests sitting with a piece of paper and writing down all the ideas to help improve the situation - so you write down all the suggestions, even the kids' really crap ones, so they are being heard.

It sounds to me as if you are locked into a very negative cycle of behaviour - both of you!

Grounding an 11yo for the whole of the summer holidays is horrific and I struggle to see what an 11yo could do that would warrant that severe a punishment.

I think you need to move on with things now - coming up with specific, measurable things that he can achieve and be rewarded for.

So instead of a 'spotless' room, give him a series of tasks, perhaps one a day for the next week, which leads to a tidy and clean room but with shorter steps on the way.

So day 1 - pick up any dirty dishes/cups/rubbish and wash them up, throw them out.

Day 2 - pick up any dirty clothes and put them in the laundry basket

Day 3 - hang up/put away any clean clothes that are lying around

Day 4 - change bedlinen and put dirty into the wash

Day 5 - wash down paintwork/surfaces

Day 6 - hoover floors

Day 7 - reward day.

Lots of praise and positive feedback for each task etc.

11 yo is not really terribly old - are you sure you are not expecting too much from him?

Ignore bad behaviour and praise good - it is as true for an 11 yo as a 3yo.

That's it exactly soapbox - I need that sort of system to keep the house vaguely tidy myself...

If someone told me 'the house has to be spotless by x' I would probably pour myself a stiff one and take it to bed

Six weeks ??

How many people did he kill ?

Totally over the top grounding.

Ok will sit down as a family and try and discuss ways forward. DP wouldn't be into this he's a 'if he don't do as he's told, send him to bed attitude' so it looks like it's me and him to arrange something between us.
What kind of choices do I give him, do you mean 'if I act respectfully towards everyone in the house, I would like the opportunity to go out to club/with mates'? That kind of thing.
What kind of rules do I need to set? Keep room tidy every day and I will be allowed out everyday?

Re the dyspraxia thing. DP dosent think he has it, and says to give it a few weeks, then ask the teacher if he's noticed anything.

Thanks for the help, I wouldn't know where to start with all this,

@woof

shiny, you need to get your DP on board

sending to bed for disobeying just breeds resentment

what do you think about hte dyspraxia? i would go into school and talk to his teacher now, as some of the behaviours you mentioned previously rung alarm bells

it is really hard, but i think soapbox speaks sense on this.

this is the book I mentioned. there are 2nd hand copies for 1p on Amazon just now

Works for me (sometimes!) really made me think about the negative patterns I had got into with dd.

I had very similar problems with my DS1 a few years ago. He was on report at school and I was regularly getting calls home about his behaviour and rudeness. He was rude and demanding at home too and on occasion violent.

I gave up asking him to keep his room tidy or to bring washing down. I just stopped going in his room. When he asked if friends could come round he was told no because his room was a mess. He soon shot upstairs to tidy it. Result! When a favourite top wasn't washed because it was stuffed under the bed he was told it was his fault for not bringing it down to be washed. Suddenly the washing bin was filling again. Another result. Just small things but a start.

I found the main improvement came when we moved. He started a new school and I think he liked the fact that he could reinvent himself almost. He's now a Prefect at school and although he's a bit lazy with his work the only one suffering is him (Which I think he's starting to realise). Would a change of school help? Is this a viable option?

I know I've rambled on but the message here is to relax a bit. When I stopped caring (Ok, I didn't exactly stop but I stopped letting him see that it bothered me) things improved.

Also another thing that I think helped was getting him involved in after school and local clubs. He did after school cricket and basket ball and joined the Army Cadets. Boys have so much energy. Let him run it off outside of the house then he might feel calmer when he comes in.