To get really tough because DS1 wants to treat me like a freakin idiot

[shinyshoes]

I'm am sick of DS1 behaviour recently, (loads of posts on it)

He's in a bnew school now, new leaf, he was grounded for ALL of the 6 weeks holiday, we are taking baby steps with him, and today was going to be the first time out for christ knows how long. I have told him to clean his room, I want it spotless, I'm not convinced it's a typical 11 year old thing anymore as I know loads that dontbehave like him.

He is generally a good kid but has a short fuse, pushes me by going on and on and on and on and fights with his brother and throws things round the room knowing his sister is asleep in the next room.

I told him if his room is spotless he can go out and I mean SPOTLESS, it's his responsibilty to keep it tidy. I have gone up there and told him no chnaces if it isn't immaculate he wont be going out.
Low and behold its fucking disgusting. He keeps treating me like a fucking ididot. He isnt going out, I will show him that the reigns will be pulled in veeeery tightly until he shows respect for me and everyone else.

(this isnt because a room werent tidy, it's to do with alot of things that have happened over the last few months and It's about treating the house with respect, treating himself respectfully and not treating me like a mug)

I show him nothing but respect, love, kindness, I listen to him and his opinions but yet he still acts arrogant.

Its the arrogance that bothers me the most

AIBU To keep him in after I specifically asked him to tidy it up and not make arrangements to go out til it was immaculate.

(his mate is on his way round now)

What is the big deal with his room? Just leave it to him to live with it if it gets into a state. Just tell him that nothing gets washed if it isn't in the laundry basket, and nothing gets washed up. You will inspect the room on the first day of each month and his pocket money/allowance will be dependent on it being tidy and clean (but to an 11yo boy's standard)!

Beyond that, who gives a stuff!

As for the rest of the stuff - 'showing respect' is way too subjective. Think of the specific behaviour you want to model and build a reward based on that. So 'if you do things the first time I ask you, without argument, then you will get XYZ'.

I also think that any behaviour reward system that is based on him being 'allowed' out is awful. His going out should be the norm - he shouldn't have to earn it!

The rewards must be around other things - perhaps extra money to pay for things he wants to do while he is out.

Also - his showing you respect will be far more likely if he is living in an environment where everyone shows respect for each other!

It sounds as if behaviour modeling needs to start with teaching your DP how to show respect for other people!

you and dp need to be united otherwise it won't work.
you and ds can make rulkes and decide on things but if dh is not on board and takes over saying 'get to bed' then i twill be pointless.

what did he do to be grounded for so long?

MMS
it was an accumulation of things.

Lighting fires, not just stamp on them to put them out, I mean setting light to bushes where the fire brigade need calling out. he did this a few times.
hanging around in derelict houses frequented by junkies (after repeatedly telling him not to)
Beating up his brother at every given opportunity.
Arugeing about everything said.
Climbing on garage roofs after repeatedly being told not to.
Dissapearing where I dont know where he is (if he dosent charge his phone up, he has to stay within calling distance, he never did this on countless occasions).
not keeping his room tidy

ok-arguing/brother hitting and not tidying rooms are a given for a boy!

but the other stuff i agree is very serious.

'
Lighting fires, not just stamp on them to put them out, I mean setting light to bushes where the fire brigade need calling out. he did this a few times.
hanging around in derelict houses frequented by junkies (after repeatedly telling him not to) "

oh my goodness

that is exceptionally serious and dangerous.

this needs tackling now

did not know it was that bad re the fires

6 weeks of grounding is very harsh imo he must feel like he is in a institution and why behave better as he has already lost everything....he is only young once and if his room isnt tidy its his room let him wallow in his own filth

Starting fires like this is really serious life endangering stuff. And hanging around derelict houses frequented by junkies... I think we're moving into a different realm from untidy bedrooms. These are the issues that need to be tackled NOW with professional outside support (which presumably you should get with the incidents you decsribe). Dont even begin worrying about messy bedrooms until you've addressed the serious stuff

would a serious telling off from a policeman / fireman be of help?

yes take him to the fire station. I had a bit of a fire fetish as a kid . I think if the scare from the fire service doesn't shock him into some sort of action, you need to carefully consider your next step.

Imo, and it really is only my opnion, it happens for 2 reasons. 1, you get a thrill from it (and if you are feeling very miserable or unhappy, that thrill is welcome) and 2, because you can.

Does he appear very unhappy?

when is he getting the opportunity to do these things?

when i [and i think a lot of other people too] say that he should be allowed out, i mean he should be allowed to go scouts, or swimming or the youth club or judo or something.

not allowed out to hang around the streets.

i agree with you not letting him do this.

i think structured activities where he can concentrate his energy in a direction would be really helpful.

get him really involved in a sport or something.

Have you been in touch wiht your GP? You might need some kind of a referral...Behaviour therapist/ Psychologist...something liek that....lighting fires etc....is serious, so, is some of the otehr stuff...and I think he is troubled in some way.

Also, maybe structuring his free time more might be an idea....different clubs/activities every day, to keep him busy and out of trouble...

Spotles is unralistic for an 11 year old. My 16 year old would find it hard to get her room spotless. also grounding him for the whole of the summer holidays semms very harsh.

There's so much good advice on here - tmmj and lulumama particularly.

I agree that he has been showing some really risky behaviour and he needs NOT to have the opportunity to do that anymore, but I tihnk as others have said giving him structured activity to go out to is far better than 6 weeks of grounding.

His behaviour sounds extremely reckless and 'angry'; if I were you I would be arranging a meeting with the school right now; you need to get his needs assessed so that if school frustrations and difficulties ARE causing him to be angry, he can be helped.

And I would stop punishing him. Punishments make kids angry and if you carry on the way you are it will just be an endless cycle and you'll end up with no relationship with him at all in the future. Boundaries and consequences can still be applied without being formal punishments.

And your DP needs to wake up and get involved. Don't accept a lazy "get to bed" type parenting, he needs to be thinking about your ds and talking about him with you and the school, it is his responsibility as the child's father.

And I think you need to talk to him differently, set different tasks; as others have said, expecting a 'spotless' room is a) too much for a child of this age alone and b) un-clear; he's a kid, he doesn't reallyknow exactly what you mean.

I would forget about t he spotless room tbh and concentrate on everything else.Some excellent suggestions on this thread.He sounds extremely disturbed.