To think that social services are soulless thoughtless C***S!

[Kneehighinnappies]

I am appalled if not sickened at the way social services are treating close friends of mine.
This may be long winded as I need to vent!

9 years ago a friends of the family was sent to prison for child abuse.
He smacked his SD round the back of the legs with a cane.
There were many other things that all led to this point, but I'm not going to go I'm not that as it isn't really what this is about.

I don't condone what he did one bit, but he served his time a built a new life for himself.
He married a lovely woman and they had a DS 4 months ago.
All the time his DW was pregnant social services were poking their noses in, which I can understand given the conviction he has, but things have now got to the point that they are trying to take is DS away!
Even though they have done NOTHING wrong!!!!

He already had a DS with his previous girlfriend and he was taken into care along with his SD.

The thing that I really don't understand is how the hell can social services think that taking a baby away from a woman who has never done anything, or even been involved in things that went on in the past is a good idea.
It's bad enough that they have said that he has to move out, which he has done, but they are still not happy enough with that and are now after the poor womans child!
All she has done is fallen in love with a man and had a child with him, surely there is no crime in that and the child should remain with her!

As for him, he served his time 9 years ago surely that is enough?
I mean I could understand if he had had previous convictions etc or had done something recently, but it has been 9 years he knows what he did was wrong and he has paid for it, why are they going after him like this!?!

Apparently they think that he is going to influence his wife into abusing their child when it is older!
As if! The woman has a brain she is a deputy head at a private school so is not the type of person who would be influenced easily, if at all.

They are even going to his employers and telling them that they should fire him and telling them all about the case they have as he works at a school (in the evenings teaching adults) and he 'may' come into contact with children!!!!
The poor bloke won't even be able to stack shelves in a supermarket by the time social services have finished with him.

They have already told his DW school all about him, even though he doesn't work there, and can't get onto the site through all the security there.

They are destroying this couples life and they will end up broke as they can't even have the same solicitor.

I think this whole case is DISGUSTING it make me feel sick that an innocent woman,mother can be treated like this!

There have been a lot of changes in law in the last 20 years as well. Also, I'm again coming back to the point that they don't work alone, they can't do anything without presenting the case to the court and getting court permission. Before it gets to court there are a lot of other people involved.

I find the born-again Christian line rather offensive, I actually know a lot of born-again Christians in social work - in fact they have their own union - and they're very good social workers.

My parents hit my brother with a wooden spoon in the 60s. Such chastisement was the norm then. Extending whta onager says, wee all those parents guilty of child abuse - including many Mumsnetter parents. Yes, some were - but not all.

By extensiom, any such parent - a product of thier times - should never be alowed any contact with thier grandhildren. What's more - any offspring of such parents should accept that if they want to keep thier children, they would have to break off any conact with thier "abusive" parents.

The point is, we don't know the details of the OP's case, so jumping in and saying it has to be child abuse is excessive.

That wouldn't be enough even today to put someone in jail, so people are having to take the logical conclusion there is more to his conviction than just that he hit a child once with a cane.

Like I said, I was hit with a walking stick, about 13 years ago. Social services got involved but nothing came of it. The police are now investigating him because I'm not the only child who was assaulted in some way by him.

Like I said, we don't kow the details of the case. I agree that one hit of a cane would not normally be sufficient to warrant a cusotdial sentence - but say they were going through a messy divorce. Say the ex was malicious: the OP alludes to other problems in a later posting. Maybe the SD hated him and exaggerated what happened. It might be that something small escalated out of all proportion.

On the other hand, it may be that he had anger management issues that he has since learned to control.

As the OP said, he served his time: must he and those close to him be punished for all time?

I'm being a bt of a devil's advocate - but I do feel that those who say that his dw should never have got involved with him or never chosen to have a baby with him are very judgemental.

Would you say that about everyone who is released from prison after crimes against children? Should the Sched 1 list be dropped for men (and women) who've been to prison? How do they determine who is still a risk and who isn't?

The only way to do things on an individual basis is to assess people when they are next in the situation where they can do it again.

Even if it was exaggerated, and that's a big exaggeration, the courts still have to do their job.

Let's forget the fact that we don't know the ins and outs, all we need to know is:

He has a conviction for crimes against children.

He has a new child.

He and his partner has refused to work with professionals.

And people who have had several children removed and adopted have gone on to keep further children. They did it by jumping through every hoop they could to prove they had changed. They've spent time in homes to prove their parenting skills, they've allowed professionals to come into their home, they've been honest with them. You do what it takes to keep your children and if you don't then you have to expect people to question your motives.

TBM: there have been problems with deranged born-agains seeing Satanism everywhere in the past.

There have also been cases of children taken away and forcibly adopted and, when the charges against their parents were proved to be nonsense and the parents guilty of nothing, the courts still would not allow the parents any contact with their children as it would 'unsettle' them.
OK this is rare, as I have said, many social workers (most of them) do a hard job very well. But unquestioning faith in Authority always worries me because Authority often gets it wrong.

Actaullt TBM - I didn't read that "they were refusing to cooperate" - I read that they were trying to do waht was asked of them: that he moved out 'cos SS asked him to, that he has said they'll take any type of parenting courses or anything they can to keep their baby. The only non cooperation that that the OP mentioned was that "she was 'defensive' towards her health visitor and the social worker who was assigned to her during her pregnancy", which I think is understandable.

I've skimed some of the the thread - have I missed other non co-operation?

tinkerbellesmum, agree with aeverything you say.Especially that men come and go, but your kids, any NORMAL mother would die for her kids, never mind give up a man who has been CONVICTED of child abuse.

I don't blame social services, what kind of a mother is she. What woman would get involved with a man like that? An abnormal one.

SS do NOT like to remove children from their families. it IS a last resort. their is something else going on here.

fgs the man went to jail. He was found guilty by a jury and he served a sentence. And op subsequently said that the ex was also later found guilty of child abuce so clearly not just a situation where she made malicious alagations about him.

But let's look at it from this pov:

Imagine someone posted the following on mn:

"I'm in a dilema. I have met a truely wonderful man, we love each other and he's very good to me. However, recently he confessed to me that he'd done time in jail and had a conviction for child abuce. He said that it was for hitting his step daughter with a cane, he was convicted and he's spent time in prison. Since then he's had a child with someone else, and because of his conviction social services were involved and the child was taken into care. I'm not sure how to react. I love him and I know he loves me. He's done his time and I believe he's changed, what should I do?".

Go on, what would you honestly advise her to do? Forget about the social services element - just consider the falling in love with a convicted child abuser part of the senario.

Let's remember something, the man is a Schedule 1 Offender. The woman is a Deputy Head Teacher of a school. She knows the full implication of getting with a Sched 1.

"But as for his DW, the only reason they have to want to take the baby off her is she was 'defensive' towards her health visitor and the socail worker who was assigned to her during her pregnancy"

You read that as doing everything she can to help?

Kneehigh- are you the SD?

Would agree with general view, have worked with S.S on many cases when there is generally lack of interest until matters critical.

Remember offenders may well disclose previous offence/s (never tried to hide it) when they know disclosure is likely. There is a high probability there is a lot of minimising of the original offence and subsequant history here. Or things don't add up.

If someone has a conviction against a child they are a Schedule 1 Offender and that's not easy to hide. Even if you have a caution for offences against a child it will show up on Sched 1. There are laws governing Sched 1 and anyone going for a job that involves working with children will have a Sched 1 check as part of their CRB.

Disclosure doesn't come into it.

defensiveness is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? I wouldn't be jumping for joy if I was p/g and my partner confessed he'd had children taken into care and then SS turned up and started deciding whether they would 'allow' me to keep my own baby.

Some SWs are brusque and treat their clients with contempt. Many don't, of course. But any job that gives people power over other peoples' lives attracts its fair share of bullies, sadly.

Look, there are clearly legitimate reasons for SS to check this family out. However, it is entirely possible they are pushing this lady around even though the partner has moved out.

I know of one case, for instance, where the social worker was prejudiced against a lady with a learning disability and determined to take the baby away. The SW ordered the mother into an M&B home on pain of losing her baby, purely in order to try to split her up from her partner. Other professionals involved who knew more about learning disabilities thought she was being far too officious. But the SW got her way.