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Original poster

To think that social services are soulless thoughtless C***S!

142 replies

Kneehighinnappies · 09/09/2008 14:10

I am appalled if not sickened at the way social services are treating close friends of mine.
This may be long winded as I need to vent!

9 years ago a friends of the family was sent to prison for child abuse.
He smacked his SD round the back of the legs with a cane.
There were many other things that all led to this point, but I'm not going to go I'm not that as it isn't really what this is about.

I don't condone what he did one bit, but he served his time a built a new life for himself.
He married a lovely woman and they had a DS 4 months ago.
All the time his DW was pregnant social services were poking their noses in, which I can understand given the conviction he has, but things have now got to the point that they are trying to take is DS away!
Even though they have done NOTHING wrong!!!!

He already had a DS with his previous girlfriend and he was taken into care along with his SD.

The thing that I really don't understand is how the hell can social services think that taking a baby away from a woman who has never done anything, or even been involved in things that went on in the past is a good idea.
It's bad enough that they have said that he has to move out, which he has done, but they are still not happy enough with that and are now after the poor womans child!
All she has done is fallen in love with a man and had a child with him, surely there is no crime in that and the child should remain with her!

As for him, he served his time 9 years ago surely that is enough?
I mean I could understand if he had had previous convictions etc or had done something recently, but it has been 9 years he knows what he did was wrong and he has paid for it, why are they going after him like this!?!

Apparently they think that he is going to influence his wife into abusing their child when it is older!
As if! The woman has a brain she is a deputy head at a private school so is not the type of person who would be influenced easily, if at all.

They are even going to his employers and telling them that they should fire him and telling them all about the case they have as he works at a school (in the evenings teaching adults) and he 'may' come into contact with children!!!!
The poor bloke won't even be able to stack shelves in a supermarket by the time social services have finished with him.

They have already told his DW school all about him, even though he doesn't work there, and can't get onto the site through all the security there.

They are destroying this couples life and they will end up broke as they can't even have the same solicitor.

I think this whole case is DISGUSTING it make me feel sick that an innocent woman,mother can be treated like this!

OP posts:
MrsMattie · 09/09/2008 16:05

I find it very, very hard to believe that a man could be imprisoned unless what he did to the child was extremely serious.

To the OP - I suspect you aren't in full possession of all the facts.

tamarto · 09/09/2008 16:12

Blu - But surely it all depends on the judge?

You hear all the time about huge differences in sentences for very similar crimes.

I think it's a plausible op certianly not unheard of, but an unlikely one all the same.

TinkerBellesMum · 09/09/2008 16:13

It's more than 19 years ago, it was gone a year or two before I started school.

TinkerBellesMum · 09/09/2008 16:15

Should have googled first, 1986 for state schools and 1988 for private.

Cammelia · 09/09/2008 16:27

1987 for state schools, 1999 for private

TinkerBellesMum · 09/09/2008 16:34

99? Is that a typo?

I found that the two sets of figures are used on different sites on a google search. As I had already started school in 87 I didn't think it could be that late (reason I know it was before was I got smacked at school in bottom infants and my teacher came out sobbing at the end of the day cause she thought she was going to be in trouble with Mum. Mum laughed and said not to worry she was used to me doing what I was in trouble for and could totally understand the teachers frustration).

tiredemma · 09/09/2008 16:37

I got the cane in 1985 for stealing dolly mixtures from my teachers top drawer

Ouch!

Cammelia · 09/09/2008 16:39

Private schools were banned from cp much later than state. And after that some private schools appealed, because they (and some parents) didn't agree with it being illegal

combustiblemelon · 09/09/2008 16:46

I got the wooden ruler on the back of my legs at the age of 5.

wannaBe · 09/09/2008 16:53

so:

the man went to prison for child abuce. Apparently for hitting a child with a cane? Let's be honest here the can't possibly have gone to prison just for that - there is obviously far, far more to this than you are aware of (if you are for real).

You've seen the case notes... sorry but that is (IMO) bullshit. Why on earth would you have access too the case notes - even the accused wouldn't have full access to those let alone any potential witnesses. Even less soo if this case was heard through the family courts - they are notoriously secretive.

Did you say the dw was a head teacher at a school - well sorry but I would have issue with the head of my ds' school being married to a convicted child abuser. It shows a signifficant lack of judgement on her part don't you think? No we can't all help who we fall in love with, but conviction for child abuce would pretty much change the feelings for me I think.

prettybird · 09/09/2008 17:26

TinkerBellesMum - I don't think the guy served 9 years in prison: it happened 9 years ago and he served a custodial sentence then. The OP doesn't actually say how long it was for.

I can't comment either way about Social Services - I've got no direct experience and acknowledge that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

However, I do recall the agonising story of Bunglie and how her children were removed and adopted on the basis of either Meadows or Southall's testimony (not having met her) and how it is possible to have miscarriages of justice. I think the other issue was the screcy of the family courts.

The advice on here is sound: even though it will be costly, she does need to ensure that she has good legal representation amd that she jumps willingly through whatever hoops she is asked to jump through.

TinkerBellesMum · 09/09/2008 18:05

Did I say that I did know, not sure what I was on if I said that lol

The thing is, as has been said by other people, the whole process is carried on by lots of people and the end decision is with the judge in the family court. I know of cases being thrown out of court or given a short amount of time to be fixed because of incompetent social workers. You can't leave all the blame with the social workers - it's like blaming the PC when someone goes to prison who was innocent.

TinkerBellesMum · 09/09/2008 18:07

Oh yeah, just read what I wrote, d'uh! Not sure what I was thinking .

soon2be3 · 09/09/2008 18:47

Tell your friend to contact the following:
-AIMS - www.aims.org.uk. They will advise you on how to get help.
-Journalist Camilla Cavendish at The Times. Go to www.timesonline.co.uk and type in Camilla Cavendish. Click on "family justice"
-There is an MP called John Hemming (liberal democrates) who has sent up an organisation to help people like your friend. Weblink: www.fassit.co.uk/john_hemming_campaign.htm

This type of behaviour from social services is becoming so common that noone bats an eyelid anymore.

bloomingfedup · 09/09/2008 18:56

He abused a child - full stop. If the baby's mother wants to keep her child she needs to cut him out of their lives asap.

TheCrackFox · 09/09/2008 19:07

I think he must have done a lot more than to have hit a child with a cane. some of this story just doesn't add up.

The OP has been given good advice. The mother concerned needs a lawyer and also to break up with her DH.

If social services were telling me to break up with DH or lose my DCs there really would be no contest(sorry DH) Adult relationships can be mended but if your DCs are taken off you and then adopted there is absolutely no going back.

I find it unlikely that the Op has seen the full version of the case notes.

wannaBe · 09/09/2008 22:06

Of course social services get it wrong sometimes. but..

The man was convicted of child abuce. He went to prison for it and his children were taken into care.

He then went on to have children with someone else and they were taken into care.

he has then gone on to have a child with this woman (knowing what has happened on previous occasions), and obviously ss are concerned about this and are considering taking this child into care.

And people think that this is ss acting in the wrong? really?

And for those saying the woman has done nothing wrong, do you not think it is wrong to knowingly have children with a convicted child abuser? To knowingly put your children at risk? because that alone makes me think that the mother's judgement is very questionable, and that her bias towards this bastard has been put over the welfare of her child.

Ronaldinhio · 09/09/2008 22:32

Sorry this is rubbish and you are either a troll or a muppet.
He was sent to prison for child abuse (chastising with a cane?) and his previous children were taken into care.
We all accept that any punishment of a child shouldn't involve an implement but even now someone hitting their child with a cane woulld be very unlikely to result in imprisonment..let alone 9 years ago.
It must be hard for your "friend" to let you know what he has done as it would most likely be abhorrent and you would likely shun him.(given a custodial sentence)
For SS to be involved there must be a real and actual threat to the unborn child.
You clearly don't think: man, previously violent to children with access to small children again...no problem or worry? TWONK

onager · 09/09/2008 22:39

Do we know how long the custodial sentence was? Suppose it was two weeks?

Again I don't know what happened and the man may be evil. I do suspect from hints that it was worse than simply one incident. However I don't know and some are saying that it's "child abuse!!!!" when all we know is that he caned a child. Something that many teachers routinely did not that long ago.

I don't think those teachers were perverts (well not all of them anyway. The PE teacher prefered boys to be naked from the waist down when he was hitting them and the headmaster was ok with that). It was just normal then. I was making the point that it is possible to cane someone and not be a child rapist.

prettybird · 09/09/2008 22:43

I agree onager

marmadukescarlet · 09/09/2008 22:56

Abuse doesn't nec mean sexual abuse, so why the comment about child rape?

edam · 09/09/2008 23:02

"For SS to be involved there must be a real and actual threat to the unborn child." Not necessarily - see the judge's comments in two recent cases, google Fran Lyons. It's not a given that SWs always act from the best possible motives in the most professional manner. Sadly, sometimes, they don't.

SWs may well be right that there is a real danger in this particular case. But it is far too simple to just assume that they are are always perfect.

onager · 09/09/2008 23:05

Because people are saying "child abuser" as though it was. It's an emotive phrase intended to sicken.

TinkerBellesMum · 09/09/2008 23:14

I disagree that child abuse = sexual abuse. The only form of abuse been spoken about is physical and it's no less abuse because there was nothing sexual about it. If it happened in the street between two adults, one beat another would that be not as bad as a woman being raped? Well he wasn't assaulted because he wasn't raped like she was!

The man has done time for abusing a child, however long it is he is still a convicted child abuser. If he was left with care of children and he abused them then who would be in trouble?

The mother (according to her friends account) has been resistent to working with the courts and so they're concerned that she is not going to put her child over her man.

solidgoldbrass · 09/09/2008 23:30

Impossible to comment on this particular case as I very much doubt we have the full story but: less than 20 years ago there were a lot of families who had their children snatched at dawn on very flimsy evidence: the children were taken away, interrogated, not allowed any contact with their parents, asked leading questions etc. Nearly all those children had not been harmed by anyone until the State got involved and subjected them to strip-searches. For those who are too young to remember Orkney and Cleveland and the Satanic Panics (influenced quite a lot by an American trend of born-again Christians going into social work and inflicting their brainless prejudices on other people). have a quick google.
Many, many social workers are decent people doing a hard job. But not all of them are.