When I see smokers with babies, I really want to yell at them...

[Sophrosyne1]

Given the fact that smoking can increase the chance of cot death, breathing problems, glue ear and a whole host of other nasties (not to mention cancer) why is it that every time I go into town or for a walk in my local area I see 'parents' who think it is OK to smoke all over their children? It makes me want to yell very loudly!!!

Whoops - 'shouldn't'!

I smoke but never indoors with my child and even outdoors I try to keep the smoke away from him with wind (if any) going in opposite direction. Probably the reason you see mothers smoking outdoors is that they have waited four hours for that fag - thinking it will harm them less in the great outdoors. Just remember, righteous indignation is bad for your mental health. But if it makes you feel more holy...

I don't detect a huge amount of 'righteous indignation' on this thread tbh; it's more a case of people finding it astonishing that people choose to smoke around their children. Some of the arguments people have used to try to defend smoking are hilarious - eg : kids are exposed to exhaust fumes anyway etc. So, because our environment is blighted by pollution anyway, shall we voluntarily add to it?? Weird reasoning. I really couldnt summon up the enthusiasm to be righteously indignant about anyone smoking over their own children - it's their choice - as long as they keep their disgusting habits away from me and mine!

I used to be friends with someone who would BF whilst smoking. Obviously she blew the smoke away from her baby because that made it ok. That sort of behaviour is disgusting but I don't really think smoking in an open area round your children is quite in the same league. My husband quit smoking whilst I was pregnant with our son as he didn't want him to be affected by the smoke either by contributing to making him ill or by making it appear smoking is acceptable. My son, however, does have the whole asthma, eczma, hay fever package(albeit in mild forms) as well as being prem & needing an operation for a condition I've since read can be linked to things like my love of perfume.

Nasty OP, Fumes from cars are more damaging than smoking around children in the outdoors.

I don't agree with smoking in cars, with children or in the same room at home. Sometimes people who smoke make better parents than people who don't smoke!!

findtheriver, it must be wonderful to only have clean and good habits like yourself. I for one would never come near you or your children in case I sullied such goodly purity

I rest my case skydancer - another excellent argument to defend smoking over children!! Whinge about other people being 'clean and pure'!! I haven't spotted anyone on this thread claiming to be perfect/pure etc etc. People are simply pointing out that the risks of smoking, or having people smoking around you, have been widely publicised for DECADES now. If you choose to go ahead and smoke, then you can't pretend you don't know the risks, which include increased chance of certain childhood illnesses,and increased likelihood of your own kids taking up fags. If people want to do that, then that's their decision, so in that sense I DON'T agree with the OP, because I can't get sufficiently bothered about other people's life choices to get worked up about it. I am simply pointing out that the arguments on this thread which have been used to try to defend smoking in front of kids have been piss poor. But that may be because there arent any good arguments for it.

I don't remember whinging - not my style. You are obviously in the right here so what 'case' are you resting -are you in a court of law? I don't think - and wasn't arguing - smoking per se is good at all nor smoking 'over' children of course (and I'm not 'defending' that despite the fact that you have attributed that to me) but I do think it's a fact that it's a hard addiction to beat. I know this as I've tried many a times - the only time I managed to be completely smoke free was when I was pregnant. As I can't stop entirely yet, my personal decision is to at least not inflict it on my child - so what I was talking about was the relative merits of smoking outside and not smoking in close proximity to any child. So do you think the woman who started this thread and wants to 'yell' at mothers who are smoking outdoors doesn't feel 'righteous indignation'? She just feels love and understanding? The only time I want to yell at mothers is when I see them yell at, verbally abuse or hit their children.

I said I dont agree with the OP - I don't want to yell at mothers smoking in front of their children - as I say, their choice. I don't remember anyone saying addictions are easy to give up. However, it's fair to say that anyone taking up, or continuing, smoking over the last 30 years or so has done so in the inescapable knowledge that it is extremely harmful, mainly for the smoker, but also for those around them.

Have not read whole thread but I very much doubt smokers are actually blowing the smoke into the babies/toddler/child face.

This thread has reminded me of my ex next door neighbours who were fiercly anti-smoking. They didn't like their precious DC's coming to call for my DD because I smoked in the kitchen, by an open window!

Both of the girls have now taken up smoking in their early teens. My DD hasn't. Sorry don't agree with 'increased likelihood of your own kids taking up fags'. Seen this happen many times.

OK smoking around children isn't the best thing you can do for your child but it certainly isn't the worst.

Statistically it is more likely that if parent(s) smoke, their children have an increased likelihood of taking it up. So it doesnt really matter if you don't agree with it - those are the facts!! Of course there are exceptions to the rule - that's how statistics work! Some children of smokers will choose not to smoke, some children of non-smokers will choose to take it up. I agree that smoking around your children isnt the worst thing you can do, there are all sorts of other things I wouldnt want to do to my children, but that includes smoking, because it isnt good for them!

findtheriver just wanted to say I agree with all your posts. Don't understand why people are giving you a hard time for stating the blatantly obvious fact that smoking is harmful for children in all sorts of ways.

Oh I haven't seen the stats just observed what can happen to children of self righteous parents when they get to their teens, they rebel.

Its best just to teach your children the facts about overeating, junk food, smoking, alchohol and drugs rather than get hysterical about these habits and hope that they make the right choices for themselves.

Oh I do agree that smoking around children in confined spaces is very bad for them, of course, that's why I always hung out of the window!

The OP was talking about smoking outside which isn't the same.

findtheriver, Do the statistics say that applies to parents who HAVE smoked or only parents who were smoking when the kid began smoking. I am curious because it may mean that the parent stopping has no effect on the child taking it up anyway.

For example a child might smoke because they copy a parent (real parents might doubt that though as it doesn't work for brushing teeth or putting dirty clothes in the basket)

They might smoke because they know that parent won't scream at them since they have smoked themselves. This might still apply if the parent had stopped.

They might smoke because smokers are less likely to be health erm enthusiasts. If they have not been brought up to be very 'aware' of health issues on a daily basis then this too would apply if the parent had stopped.

As for all the things that smoking causes.. The researchers must get very annoyed since generally they report "may contribute to" and the tabloids say "passive smoking causes cancer!!!"

The story grows in the telling so some now believe that a car driving past with a smoker in it can infect you.

There is nothing remotely self righteous or hysterical about my posts abouteve. As you will see if you read them. If the best you can do is accuse people who point out the facts of being 'hysterical' then it's a pretty poor argument!
I agree that it is good to teach your children calmly and rationally the facts about these issues, so that they are fully informed. I would add to that, that children learn best by example, so personally I wouldnt choose to teach them the facts about junk food and then give them McDonalds several times a week, or teach them about smoking, and then smoke myself. I think children learn most by what they see around them - they are usually very quick to see through people who say one thing and do another.

findtheriver, I never accused you of being hysterical. I was pointing out the attitude of my neighbours which was extreme and the fact that their DD's have rebelled and now smoke. I also know of many children who take up smoking when parents didn't smoke. Myself for example. But agree that it can also be learnt behaviour.

'The story grows in the telling so some now believe that a car driving past with a smoker in it can infect you.'

It's all a bit exagerated nowadays. The tabloids twist it with hysterical headlines that many people believe.

Agree that the tabloids are full of shite. Avoid. Arm yourself with the facts - there is no need to exaggerate them. Smoking is toxic; it is bad for the smoker and bad for those around them.

I know it is and most smokers do too. I hope that parents who smoke try not to around the children. We have been pushed outside now and accepted it as it's better for others.

Similar to having a drink, eating cake etc. We know it could potentially harm but still do it sometimes.

I don't think mine will take up the habit. I reckon I've put her off with my pathetic attempts to quit.

Yes about eve - I don't know any smoker - whether highly intelligent or completely stupid - who doesn't know the facts (or let's say enough facts) about the danger of smoking. findtheriver do you really think there's any ninnies out there thinking "Ooh, must have another cigarette to clear up that cough I've had lately!"? Or " Hmm, I must blow a bit of smoke down the nostrils of my new born to wake him up a bit"? The fact is that smokers are like the rest of humanity, some more intelligent and some dimmer. The dimmer or less moral of us will perhaps make less efforts to minimise the dangers to ourselves or our children, the less dim or more caring will take whatever measures they can to lessen the harm. It annoys me when people look at a behaviour and assume so much about the intentions, IQ or moral character of the person displaying the behaviour. We all know the biggest bastards hide their actions. 'Saintly' pastors with 4000 porn downloads of little children etc.

I think that education is helpful. If health professionals realise a pregnant woman is normally a smoker they could offer them a lot of help to stop and/or information about how to protect their child/children from their smoking.

'findtheriver do you really think there's any ninnies out there thinking "Ooh, must have another cigarette to clear up that cough I've had lately!"? Or " Hmm, I must blow a bit of smoke down the nostrils of my new born to wake him up a bit"? '

• er, no, I don't recall suggesting anything like that. And I don't think anyone has made any assumptions about the IQ or morals of parents who smoke! Maybe you've been reading a different thread! The one I've been reading simply points out that there is a wealth of information in the public domain, and from what I see around me, there is a HUGE programme of educating people/supporting them in giving up smoking from health professionals. Just in my local health centre I've seen support groups advertised, there are nicotine patches etc people can use. The knowledge is there (which it wasn't 50 years ago, when smoking was advertised as glamorous and 'cool' and even a health benefit). Times have really changed, thank goodness.

Quotes:

"YANBU - these people are morons."
"Selfish, selfish, selfish".
"It's a fucking disgusting habit."

Terrible language in this thread but what can you do...? But with that issue as with the issue of smoking in close proximity to kids I agree findtheriver -as that old Tony Blair said: " Education, education, education"!

I don't agree with the first quote - the definition of a moron is, I think, someone with an IQ below about 70. Clearly many smokers are far more intelligent than that. Second quote - well, wouldn't have written it myself, but I think whoever did has a point. To put your own wants/needs before your kids is selfish, that's a fact. There are times when I think parents can justifiably put their needs first, but personally I wouldnt make smoking one of them.
Third quote - MINE! And I wholeheartedly defend it. Smoking is fucking disgusting, smelly, dirty, polluting. I wouldnt use those words in front of my kids - but on a MN thread, yeap definitely!