to really dislike the phrase 'ALL that matters is you have a healthy baby'?

[Spidermama]

Because that's not ALL that matters. Of course it's the most important thing, but I fear some women allow themselves to be short changed when it comes to giving birth, or having the experience taken away from you, by medics and midwives who say 'ALL that matters is you have a healthy baby.'

Actually, a positive birth experience would be quite helpful too.

Every woman is entitled to expect that both her baby's health and her own body will be taken into full consideration when she is giving birth, and to anticipate a full recovery from childbirth with a body in full working order within a few months.

Here in France the doctors are terribly strict about weight gain in pregnancy. I knew very little about this and rather used to assume it was to do with (typical French) vanity. But no - actually, gaining as little weight as possible during pregnancy means that far less stress is put upon a woman's body/internal organs and so she is much more likely to make a full recovery to her pre-pregnancy body.

After my traumatic delivery of DS everyone said this to me. Everyone. And considering I was lying in a hospital bed, desperatly ill with an infection, having screaming nightmares and flashbacks, pooing and weeing myself constantly and unable to walk or feel my foot, I found it pretty damned inconsiderate. Especially from my own mother, who made it clear that she was so delighted with my son that it didn't bother her at all that I was a wreck.

Of course now I feel it was all worth it and I am much happier that the damage was done to me and not DS, but it would have been nice if someone other than my DH could have acknowledged that I was in a terrible state. I think that mothers ougt to be able to make their own minds up whether they think it was all worth it, rather than having everyone trying to impose their own agenda on them.

In the long run, it's the only thing that can't be changed. If your child isn't born healthy, it's not something you can get over with the right help, though birth trauma is, so in one respect it is what's important long term but having suffered B.T myself I'd never say it, it's patronising and dismissive but normally said in a misguided attempt to make someone feel better.

VS - it's not the only thing that can't be changed if you are damaged yourself by the birth. I have to admit though that I've had sneaking jealously for women that "only" have birth trauma, as I've been able to work on the emotional problems following my delivery, the physical ones are harder and probably will never go away (and get worse after menopause).

Listening skills - lesson 1

When a person tells you about negative feelings or experiences they've had, don't feel you have to say something to make them feel better. Quiet, sympathetic listening is usually enough. (on the other hand, comments like 'I feel your pain!' may earn you a kick in the fanjo if recipient is fit enough to oblige).

I prefer it to be phrased as 'the most important thing is that Mother AND baby come out of it live and well'.

Having a healthy baby is pretty important. Brain damage is no fun. The decisions I made surrounding ds3's birth in particular were made with the aim of causing the least damage to the pair of us (the actual experience of the birth was way down the list).

I don't like the 'all that matters is a healthy baby' as I think it negates the happiness that gained from giving birth to a baby who has problems. But that's rather hard to navigate around in one sentence and I don't think is the message that's meant by people who say it.

VS, of course you're right, but this comment was made by my GP a week after the birth and I just wanted her to know how horrendous it was. Not that I wanted to make a big deal about it - just patient - GP. It's a count your blessings sort of thing. It wasn't until I had DS and they were reading my notes that I found out there had been an internal inquiry....

Oh, and thanks for the Fiji army link! Very interesting and didn't know they didn't have their own army. Not sure what I thought about how the Fijian military organized itself .

Tittybangbang- you make a good point - audience and timing are all important. When discussing birth options before birth I think it can be a valid phrase to say, but should be used more cautiously following a traumatic birth (when shutting up and listening is probably going to be more helpful to most).

Ahh this thread reminds me of the comforting words my MIL bestowed upon my somewhat shaken DH an hour or so after DS2's birth (shoulder dystocia, major bllod loss, tranfusion, 3rd degree tear.)

"Oh FGS get a grip! It's over now"

Yes, MrsT, it should be 'mother and baby' but even then until you've suffered I don't think you understand that what people want is a nod and a smile, a poor you, that sucks, not reassurance that sounds like a brush off.

I dont get this whole focus on "the perfect birth". It is just placing stress on the expectant mum. Not only am i supposed to give birth, it is supposed to be a lovely and meaningful and utterly joyous experience! Utter TOSH in my opinion.

Birth is, in most cases, the beginning of life, or end of pregnancy, it is just a transition from one stage to the other. Something we all have to go through when putting children on this planet.

The memory of a birth experience fades into insignificance for most as time goes by. An unhealthy baby may not necessarily improve, rather the opposite. So, a few years down the line the birthexperience will be just that. A memory of a past experience, much like any other memory. The baby on the other hand is hopefully more than just a memory.

QS, the memory of the birth may fade but it can fuck you up big time if you then get pregnant again.

I do completely agree though VS. Before I had counselling and meeting the senior midwife for this pregnancy, I was getting nightmares where I was strapped to a hospital bed being wheeled off down a corridor, with no sign of DH, me shouting out "BUT I DON'T CONSENT" over and over and the medical staff laughing at me. So I certainly don't underestimate the psychological effects. It was being really listened to and not getting stupid platitudes that has got me through this pregnancy so far.

I know VS that is why I said "for most".

But I think it helps to have realistic expectations to start with, as I imagine if somebody had told me the reality of a birth experience rather than harping on about "Active Birth, You dont need painrelief if you do it right, squat squat, practice your squatting, this is the most beautiful thing that is about to happen to you", etc, I would not been so traumatized by the birth of my firstborn that could have easily been directed by Quentin Tarrantino.

True, QS.
Also would help if we weren't strapped to beds with midwives watching the clock.

Sorry Riven. I dont know what to say. But it proves the point that the birth itself is not as important as the health of the baby.

VS, sure, that is how it happened with my first, which was an induced nightmare labour and birth. My second was out like a shot without painrelief.

notion of perfect birth is not necessarily medics etc either.many poncy classes push an idealised and maybe unrealistic expectation of birth

that is
pain free
no interventions
no analgesia
no CS
chanting an incantation
whilst candles are fragrantly filling the room
harnessing the i-am-woman-power to assert and obtain preferences

when the actual reality is a busy stretched labour ward and not so ambient surroundings

it can be competitive when some mums opine that CS equals cop out.phrases likemtoo push to push are nasty too

I loathe it too but from a different point of view, I am really blessed I have 3 beautiful daughters but when I said "oh it's a girl" or "she's a girl" I have had "oh thats a shame it's not a boy but as long as it's healthy"

No I am in no way disappointed that my beautiful baby does not have a penis and even if she wasn't "healthy" I would still want and love her.

In my book, having a healthy baby is much, much more important than "the perfect birth."I had a horrible birth experience which soon faded from memory when my beautiful little boy arrived. I don't even think of the birth now.
It's amazing how many of my friends tec=xted me details about the "birth" when their babies arrived. There was often more about that than the baby! I wasn't interested.

yanbu - but at the end of the day all the day all that matters is a healthy baby & mum.

I hate the phrase too. It is one of those lazy platitudes which may actually be offensive to those who have permanant damage or less than healthy babies.

"...reality is a busy stretched labour ward and not so ambient surroundings"

That reality is so very wrong. I used work on farms at calving/lambing time and realised that farmers would not dream of putting their animals into a stressful situation when they were about to give birth - simply because it increases the risk of complications. Why are human mothers not given the same consideration? This is one area where investment into better facilities might bring tangible results.

the phrase is reductionist focussing on the outcome and not the process.but for me it was spot on. all that did matter was live birth as outcome

upwind yes you are completley right.one should labour in safe calm environment.

Not read all the post but have to say that after having a stillbirth, all that does matter to me with this next pregnancy is that we do have a healthy baby

Yes it probably does depend on previous experiences.

With ds3 I was so terrified of dying and something happening to ds3 that pretty much all that mattered to me was was getting through it with both of us alive! So 'all that matters is a healthy baby' was pretty much on my wavelength.

IN fact what happened was I was lying there 12 hours post section, hadn't washed for days, hospital gown, sweating as you do, hooked up to drips and catheters and drains and iv antibs and my friend visited and said "oh you look soooo much better than you did when I saw you last week"