I genuinely don't know who is being unreasonable...

[TheArmadillo]

Because of problems I have wiht my mother I have no idea what is unreasonable behaviour or not.

So would like so opinions on the following.

1. I go round my mother's house, she is busy finishing a few things off. I make her cup of tea and take ds into garden so he does not disturb her. When she finishes (15-20 mins later) she is furious that I have not put out her washing, unloaded her dishwasher or done any tidying/cleaning for her. My opinion is I was making sure ds did not disturb her and genuinely didn't notice hte washing.

2. Her laptop had crashed when she was using it. I was on my way out the door, but had a look. I couldn't do anything to fix it and couldn't suggest anything. Mum was furious and sees this as an example of my laziness and selfish behaviour.

3. Mum wanted to get rid of some things - my dp suggested freecycle. She got my sis (who llives at home) to check out the site, but discovered in order to register you would need to write a small bit on why you wanted to join. She refused to do this as thought it was too much to ask. BEtween her, my dad and my sis (all degree educated) they decided it was unreasonable that they should have to do this themselves and that it was my duty to. I feel that as they were perfectly capable of doing it and it was just htat they didn't wan to I shouldn't have to. (I did it btw cos I couldn't stand the row).

So what's your opinions? These are examples of similar things that crop up again and again. I have no idea whether I am behaving childishly to prove a point or whether these are unreasonable expectations on her part.

Spring is a long time away. Can you stand it for that long? I agree with Mrs Snorty about the counselling for you. I think it would help you to see how you can change your behaviour towards her which would in turn change hers. It might surprise you.

I had a awful relationship with my mum, I would bend over backwards to please her, but nothing was enough. (She was very violent as well) In the end I stopped all contact. I see her at family events and I ignore her or infront of certain people who dont know I will respond to her but thats all. To me I have no mother. Its hard because I feel very sad about it, but at the same time my life is 100x better withut her in it. I really feel for you.

"I can see her behaviour as not great at mo but am having probs seeign it as being as bad as others close to me see it."

Armadillo, this is the absolute key here. I know you and I have conversed about this before and I have a good idea of how awful and controlling she is.

You need to make a total break with your mother at least for a time in order to be able to see how awful she is. Would you really accept this sort of behaviour from a friend or a work colleague? If the answer is no, then you should not accept it from her either.

Stop visiting her at her home. If she wants to see you, she can come to visit you. Your house is certainly not filthy. Do not obey her barking orders at you. Do not allow her to change your ds's clothes, do not keep toys/cots/high chairs at her home. Hang up the phone when she says she wants you to move home/visit her doctor/send ds to her local school etc/restrict phone calls to once a week and visits to once a fortnight. Her home is not your home anymore. Ignore your sister and father - they are not helping you.

My mother is bad, but not as bad as yours. And I have the same issues with siblings who also see her behaviour as "normal" because it is what they are used to, and a father who thinks life will be easier if we all just go along with her mad rantings. I am only now starting to say to them that I refuse to tolerate her behaviour anymore and only because I am married to an amazing man who has helped me see that I don't need to run to them with my problems anymore. That I should stop allowing them to control me. And, most importantly, that it is not in the interests of my dc to be exposed to her bad behaviour.

If your relationship with your dp is good, then get married. He is your ds's son for goodness sake - who on earth does your mother think she is trying to divide your ds from his father? Is that in the interests of your ds? No, of course it's not. It's in the interests of your insane mother.

Gosh, hope I don't seem too dictatorial. Just really want you to make the break from her. Your confidence will improve so much when you do. She has you thinking you can't invite people to your home because it's too filthy fgs! It's rubbish!

You mean Armadillo believes her Mum about the state of her house you have a child and a life of course it will be untidy.

Please stop letting your Mum ruin your life and messing with your brain for your son's sake too.

I am waiting for councelling at mo. Am on waiting list at docs.

I do know my biggest problem is that I am unable to see her behaviour as others do.

I am cutting down on visits - am not going there everyday - more like once a week, and I only speak to her on hte phone when she phones me.

I had bad day on sat where I ended up going to my parents and I did feel bad about that. Though the day itself wasn't too bad.

I am getting myself out of this, but cutting myself off completely from them isn't an option for me at mo. I am not ready. I've got a year to untangle myself. I am going at a speed I am happy with.

Also we rely on them for childcare. Ds starts school in a year so we won't need it then. She will also have no say on which school he goes to (she chose the preschool he attends at mo - which ends up with us relying on them for childcare) so if we move - no more preschool and so no need for their childcare.

My biggest prob at mo is setting up new boundaries and understanding what is acceptable behaviour. This is all new to me. It is only recent that I have come to understand her behaviour as at all unreasonable.

It's all confusing and up in the air but I ma working my way thru it.

1. You're not their maid

2. You tried but couldn't help. She should have thanked you for trying.

3. WTF? Twats.

Saddest thing of all is that they have you so fucked up that you even had to ASK these questions on here. Hope the counselling comes soon and helps you. xx

oh, and for the love of god don't ever move back there! I bet my last penny she'd have you doing all the chores (fecking slavery!!) while she raised your (her in her mind!) son.

you say she loves you. What makes you think that? In what way does she behave that is loving and caring? How does she show you love?

I ask because sadly, NOTHING that you have written says 'love' to me, in any way shape or form. Kicking someone and then saying the words "I love you" does not make it true.

I hope you get the fuck away from the lot of them and focus on life with your family (dp and children!!) asap.

And this is what happens when you are reading through a thread and getting so angry that you can't wait to read through the whole thing before posting!

That's angry with the person described, not you, btw!

thank you for the messages.

I am having probs with measuring reasonablness so it really helps.

I still can;t get my head around others getting so angry about it, when I am struggling to accept the idea of how bad it might be.

I've made excuses for so long, for why people who care about me have found my mother infuriating

dp = personality clash
mates = well they never had a normal upbringing (amongst them they have been orphaned and /or clearly abused by at least one parent).

Plus even dp didn't have an idea of some of stuff which has been going on.

It's hard to see how much this upsets those who love me my dp/his mum/friends and see them close to tears in some instances.

I have nearly broken up friendships over this, luckily dp has been my saneness measure adn refused to let go of me (though it nearly came to that). I have spent so long not trusting them on their opinion on my mum that to do a complete u-turn is a bit confusing sometimes. Also I seem to have opened the floodgates for things they've been wanting to say for years (and to be fair did try, but nothing went in).

It's all so wierd. This isn't my family, this isn't supposed to be happening to me.

I can't bear the idea that my mum might not love me atm. I can't think about it.

I am beginning to question this stuff, but still need to check in with independant opininos for a while.

Oh Armadillo, you can't bear the thought that she might not love you, but everything she demonstrates shows you that she doesn't, hearing it won't make any difference. This is like Cinderella on Mumsnet, honestly I would say YANBU at all and am glad to see you are changing things for the better at our pace, you'll look back and laugh I promise.

I am lucky to have dp, his family and my friends. God knows, after all I have put them thru why they stick around some days

They are lovely and supportive, and are letting me do this at my own pace, in my own way.

I know dp would like nothing better than to tell my mother exactly what he thinks of her, but he won't for my sake as he knows I need to do this. And that I respect him for more than anything else.

She has always taken all my battles and fought them for me, I was never allowed. I used to get angry that dp, although he would back me up, would never go and fight them for me. It's something I am very grateful for now.

Have you always had this type of relationship with your family? Have you always been the one to finally sort things out for your mum and have your father and siblings always expected you to be the responsible one? It sounds like a behaviour pattern from childhood, in which case you may need to seek help to manage your situation. Somehow you need to readdress the balance of relationships so you can have an adult conversation with your mother and a balanced level of expectation from your father and siblings. Don't make any decisions that are heavily influenced by your parents, yu are an adult and need to think of yourself and son first.

My own mother and her siblings have this type of relationship with my grandmother.

I don't know why they return to her ,when she speaks and treats them in such a derogatory way (I think they are emotionally weakened by her and as a result she controls them, it is not their fault, they have had this all of their lives.)

Family that are less close to her, like her and are treated in a better way. I wish my own mother had been able to break away from her hold, but she hasn't and all of my life, it is all she speaks of.

I am thinking of your son, by breaking the cycle you can improve his future relationships. Seeking some good effective help it proabably the best route to make a difference.

Does she know how she makes you feel?

Sorry I feel that there may have been previous posts/history which I do not know about.

Do you think she is perhaps depressed? Its bizarre behaviour.

Can I ask how much money you will lose in this house 'deal'? HOw much have you paid into the house?

it sounds stupid to say this but I have no idea whether it has always been this bad, whether it has always gone on or whether it is something that has got worse over time.

I am trying to remember stuff, I can remember specific events that don't seem great, but not what it was like generally.

I have started getting unsettling flashbacks and my behaviour as a child at some points does seem to me now to be very disturbing, or at least if ds displayed it I would be very worried. So maybe I should use that as an indicator?

My mum has told me her behaviour has been in response to what I was like/what I have done, and is difficult for me to tell what lead to her behaviour and what was a result of it. She also tells me of outside influences that led to some of the behaviour, so again I find it hard to tell what fits in where.

I don't know how much we will lose in the house. We have paid mortgage (but have also had lodgers paying some costs), and my savings. I know how much is it worth, but have never been allowed to see bills and things which make it more difficult. I've never bothered to work it out exactly.

But my mum has put in more as she put in deposit.

my mum is not happy, ever.

A lot of her behaviour comes from not wanting me to ever make a mistake or to suffer thru lack of money. She wants to control everything so she can make sure I am completely looked after and nothing bad can ever happen to me.

with regard to the house if you've mainly just paid the mortgage then in a way you haven't lost much as you would have had to rent somewhere anyway. What does your Dad say if you ask him to see the bills etc?

A parents job is to prepare your children for adult life and responsibilities so if she has always taken over and controlled rather than given you the tools you needed to make your own decisions and mistakes then that is her problem/fault/issue, not yours. I parent my children slightly differently because they are different personalities but the aim is the same that I give them the tools (and love!) they need to survive in the real world.

I'm glad you have a wonderful partner who is helping you through this.

Do you have a mortgage on the property? How much for? Did you put in any money apart from paying the mortgage? How much are similar houses worth? You can't just sign over the property without her taking over the whole mortgage. Is she doing that? Have you had any legal advice about this at all? Please don't end up with her 'owning' the house and you ending up still liable for payments!

I will be signing over property of the house (deeds etc).

The mortgage will be done when it is renewed in a few months time.

yes you do need to take legal advice to ensure that the mortgage and house ownership is properly sorted.

Your mum sounds a little like mine in that respect, so long as I am provided for financially then I am - being emotionally supported/fine counts for nothing!!!!! Fortunately they are not control freaks though.