AIBU to think that once you have paid your childcare, its not really worth working.? Is it that you just don`t want to look after your own kid. prefering to stick them in daycare as soon as the shine wears off, it really bugs me!

[discusturd]

Some go from 7-6 and never see there parents, I know I will get slated but in the nursery I work some kids hardly know who their parents are.

Before I get shouted at I'm not saying either way is right or wrong (it is down to the individual and their circumstances)
I chose to go back to work FT after my first child and chose to go into FT education after my second child. What I didn't do was send either to a day nursery but that was my informed choice.

Now [putting on hard hat and body armour smiley] speaking purely from an academic stand point there is in fact a library full of recent research about the effect of day care on young children if anyone cares to look from highly respected universities including a study by Oxford University, commissioned by the government to evaluate the impact of the £370 million they have spent expanding childcare and encouraging mothers to return to work.

prettyladybird - would just emphasise too that going out to work isnt necessarily a case of enjoying motherhood, or fatherhood, any less. Not at all!!
I adore my kids, they are fun and loving and good company,and my DH feels the same! I wouldnt adore them any more had I spent every moment at home with them! I'm fortunate that I also have a career which I love (not as much as I love my kids of course) and which is mentally stimulating, pays well and is useful. Ditto for my DH. So win win really.

'working together in partnership for the good of the whole family'. I agree but I don't think each person has to do half one and half the other or bring in a 3rd party to work in partnrship. One person SAH and one the breadwinner is also doing half the family 'work' each IMO. That's what works for us at this point in time. Too much emphasis is put on to just the financial side of family life but caring is just as important. I know I am contributing just as much to the family and am enabling DH to be able to work as he enables me to SAH with our kids.

Absolutely jellybeans - there are many ways of working in partnership. I don't agree that too much emphasis is put on the financial side of family life though - of course looking after children is important too. Which is why many families want both parents to be fully involved in caring as well as providing.
I think the model I was describing has probably become more prevalent over recent years for all the sociological reasons discussed already on the thread. In the days when women left school and then did fairly low status work for a few years with the expectation that they would then marry, stop work, have kids and keep house, the traditional roles were the accepted norm. That's not the case any more. Women are educated to the same level as men, they have access to all sort of careers, and often men are attracted to women who are their equals. Therefore it makes sense that many fathers and mothers BOTH want to be parents and have careers.

Pray tell "what are we supposed to do?" Marry wealthy men have children stay at home? Have children claim benifit? Not have children and work?

What a simplistic idealistic view of life, to think have kids stay at home, want to work have no kids????? Where is this place I want to go, do I get to wear size 8 jeans and have an ass like J Los as well?

Exactly cola!
I know a few women who are married to wealthy men, and are SAHMs. Most of the husbands are deeply dull (I know - I've had the misfortune to sit next to them a few dinner parties!!)The women may have a lovely big house and no need to work, but it doesnt mean they necessarily have a great relationship with their husband! Children need to feel loved and secure, and they also need to be cared for by a happy parent, or parents. If they have a mum and dad who both work, and are in love, know how to enjoy themselves and still have a laugh together that counts for a hell of a lot!

This thread has made me think about my own situation (once again) and I can see the benefits of both parents working (as I have p/t in the past) but I still would'nt leave my baby in full time childcare.

Findtheriver - 'often men are attracted to women who are their equals' - I am my DH's equal - I don't need a paid job to prove this. My DH puts our children to bed most nights, spends all of his weekend with them and any other time possible - he is fully involved in their care.

I cook most nights for my family, do the school run, housework, ironing, sort out the family budget, shopping etc - so my current role migt be seen as traditional? I feel that my DH works long hours and needs my support - if we were to both work f/t I'm not sure that he would be able to fully commit to his job. At the end of the day, my DH earns over 10x what I could earn - I would'nt want to jepodise his career.

Little women - don't think so, realistic - totally.

happyhoney - perhaps I didnt explain myself well. Of course everyone is equal in global, human terms. Someone living on the streets is of equal value to someone earning 500k in human terms. What I mean, is that now more than in the past, with equal numbers of women and men going to University, getting good careers etc, there is a greater likelihood of men and women who are of similar social status/earning power/ interests pairing up. Whereas in the past, women were taught good housewifely skills, and valued for their ability to keep house and have babies, the expectation now is that women and men will lead far more similar lives. My husband is equally capable of parenting, cooking, cleaning. I am equally capable of having an interesting career and paying the bills. And the point I am making is that there has never been a time in history when this has been the case as much as it is now. There is a long history of women working outside the home, sure, but that was in lowpaid, low status jobs. The expectation and aspirations now among men and women are far more balanced - which I think is a good thing for us all.

findtheriver - this is your opinion - who am but a humble 'housewife' to try and argue the case.You are obviously far superior to me in so many ways. Prehaps I should try and be like you? Maybe then my husband would find me more attractive and still be able to have a laugh with me?

I agree Cola and Find.
Life isn't like it was thirty years ago. Life isn't a fairy tale. Its changable and the most parents need or want to have some life away from their kids and man, so that they are real and loving people. I work as a teacher and if I didn't really want to teach or love my subject the kids would suffer because id be a fake teacher (There in person but not in mind) Im going to have to work part time for the sake of bills and having some of my own independance, but i hope that I will appreciate my kids even more when i am with them and be a better mum and partner.

I don't quite understand what point you are trying to make with your last post, findtheriver.

I can understand happyhoney as that's pretty much the same way dh and I decided to divide the workload.

On a differnt note, I do resent the fact that should I want to stay at home all day with my kids that I can't. Todays world is becoming to high paced and we don't appreciate the little moments because we just don't have the time or energy.

Mariecharlie - 2 things. Do you really believe that someone can't be loving and 'real'? without time away from their children and man?

and
what makes you think that someone who is sahm doesn't get time away from their children and man?

I do agree that prehaps parents who work out of the home enjoy their kids more when they are with them.However,I can not get my head around wanting some life away from your kids if it is for this reason. If both parents don't need to work then (for money, to keep their hand etc) would'nt it be better to try and enjoy being at home with your DC? If you had a job that you were'nt enjoying fully - you would try and make things better??

The point I am making is pretty clear actually juuule. That society has altered significantly over the last few decades. Women and men have greater equality in many aspects of life, and the impact of this is that a far greater proportion of women than in previous years have access to well paid professions and jobs. Another impact of this is that men have a greater expectation to be hands-on and involved in parenting. I don't think those are difficult issues to understand!
Happyhoney - I haven't called you a humble housewife, or said that I am superior to you - those are your words. Maybe you have an issue if you choose to use that terminology?

juuule,

I agree completley. I am real (too real) and very loving to my family. I also spend time away from them - I certainly not an earth mother.

I know my mum sufferd from being at home all the time, and then felt this held her back later and caused her alot of depression. I would love the opportunity to be at home with my kids all the time, and as I said I really resent how the modeern world has turned completely on its side. I do think that you can be just as loving, but I also know that for me personally I need to work abit, or at least have my own projects outside and away from home to be a better person all round to my family.

findtheriver- I was being tounge in cheek. I find your posts very patronising to say the least and do not need a social history lesson from you - thanks anyway.

I do have issues - as we all do but not about being a housewife or little women as I am not......might be quite nice thoughLOL

juuule - I wouldnt say it's about being 'loving' and 'real'. But I do think that having a stimulating work life can fulfil aspects of your character that can't be fulfilled at home. In my professional life I get to deal with people and situations which require skills that I didn't get to use when I was at home on maternity leave. I get to develop my skills and knowledge within my particular sphere. There are numerous other positives about working. And of course there are lots of positive things about parenting too.

I must be a terrible parent then as i dont work and my kids still go to nursery

gave up 2 mths ago and the kids go part time and have a fantastic time learning lots of things and playing with children from lots of different backgrounds. They do far more at nursery than i could think of doing with them.

dear dear happy- maybe one of your issues is that you are a little over sensitive. My posts are not in the least patronising. I think the changing roles of women and men in society is a really interesting issue - sorry if you don't think the same.

Aprilmeadow,

My DD's both went to nursery - even when I did'nt work. I am pG with no 3 and this baby will be going p/t as well. I sent them for many reasons -partly for social interaction/activities/so they would'nt be clingy when starting school but a big part of it was so I could have a break! So prehaps I am a bad parent too.

I hate leaving my family. I can't stand it even for a day, but i know that when i've done it I feel more appreciative of them. I also feel more alive bacause I love my job. I know that I always wished that my mum thought more about herself than she did when she was bringing us up and that was even as a young child. Thats all im saying that it is important that a women has choices, and whats sad is when those choices are taken away.

Find,

Very intereting but no need to harp on dear. You are coming across as someone who has been to uni and wants us all to know - we know now and feel so much better.

Happyhoney - Tbh happyhoney I've generally enjoyed being with my children more since I gave up work. While I was at work I wasn't quite as tolerant of them as I am now.

findtheriver - but shouldn't that also mean that either parent could have equal choice to be sahp.
I was equal to dh when we met and for a few years after. Same career. We decided between us who would stay home. I wanted to and he wasn't keen so that's what happened.
Both working part-time wasn't an option. We had tried both working and it was difficult for both of us with me feeling that outsourcing childcare wasn't ideal for the children and both of us struggling if the children were sick as both had responsible jobs where it wasn't easy to be called away.
The solution was one full-time sahp and one full-time wohp.
For us society hasn't changed that much that mix and match is always possible or desirable for a lot of people.

Oh and your posts do come across as patronising e.g:
"a stimulating work life can fulfil aspects of your character that can't be fulfilled at home."
Really Maybe not for you but it's not been a problem for me.