AIBU to think that once you have paid your childcare, its not really worth working.? Is it that you just don`t want to look after your own kid. prefering to stick them in daycare as soon as the shine wears off, it really bugs me!

[discusturd]

Some go from 7-6 and never see there parents, I know I will get slated but in the nursery I work some kids hardly know who their parents are.

Juuule: 'With my first child, I was totally unaware that there might be any reason to not send my child to nursery or any other form of childcare.'

I would have thought the prevailing view over the ages is that ideally one parent (almost usually mother) would stay at home because she is supposed to be best placed emotionally and biologically (bf-ing) to look after a young baby. Childcare has generally been seen as secondbest but a necessary evil if both parents have to go back to work.

We still get a lot of this on various mn threads. This is usually said in an emotive way, in conjunction with 'why have children ... dump ... strangers'. A bit like this one.

No we don't but it's handy to know that there might be a harmful element to something that we are making a choice about.

Well it wasn't the prevailing view amongst the people I was associating with.

Juuules - Of course it's useful to know the pros and cons of any situation. And I would say that at this point in history, people have access to better information than at any other time. eg all of us on MN (and countless others) have access to the internet. I'm not saying that all the information is good quality (unfortunately some people choose to read tabloids, but that's freedom of choice for you!)but one thing is certain - the information IS out there.
I think most parents take a pragmatic approach. When you are making a major decision, eg what career to go into, which nursery or school to send your child to, what house to buy, then, yes, you will spend time considering the pros and cons of each option and weighing them up. I really don't get this assumption that parents don't do that!

Children do much better if mother's work. It's win win if you work. I personally prefer children at home with a nanny to nurseries and if you have a good few children it's cheaper too.

People always think they have access to better information but it's mostly fed to you by the powers that be depending on whether it's world war II and they want women to work in factories or they want more women at home for political reasons - Hitler's kinder kuche and kirche women at home stuff etc etc. But mostly there is just massive sexism across this planet because that suits men and many women, which day after day churns out propaganda which suggests women must stay home. Ignore it and take your place in the real world, lead nations, run companies and don't be affected by propaganda designed to keep women down.

Oh FFS, there's a potential 'harmful element' if you stay at home and a potential 'harmful element' if you put them in a nursery.

Cannot believe there is still all this bickering going on.

There is no conclusive evidence. Some research has for sure been twisted (esp Joseph foundation), Most research shows that you cannot conclude without recourse to contextual factors (eg quality of childcare provided). Some research has firm conclusions but is drawn from statistically small samples. Those in favour of parental upbringing tend to avoid considering why Scandinavian countries so sucesfully adopt almost universal nursery usage from the age of around 9 months without ill-effect. Those in favour of going out to work tend to avoid the research quoted by Biddulph et al. There is plenty of information 'out there' and IME most of the media prefers to attack the WOHM, not the other way round.

FWIW as a WOHM I get really angry at the assumption that I haven't made an educated decision with regard to what I have chosen to do with regards to my kids. It is not a charge I level at SAHM, and it is an insult to my intelligence.

Totally agree with your last point squiffy. I am perfectly happy with the concept of people making personal choices, and I just don't understand this assumption that those of us who have used nurseries are victims of some kind of conspiracy theory and that we haven't been able to use our own judgement in making the decision.
FGS, I make major, level headed decisions every day in my working life ; why the hell would I not be able to do so in my personal life!!

funny how, people are so keen on what suits parents.
that fluffy old line
happy parent=happy baby.
what a load of rubbish.

its seems to apply to bf, yes it is hard work and probably easier to ff, but you know what, whats best isn't always whats easiest or most convienant

yes it is best for a child under 3 to be a parent, but in many cases both parents feel they need to work for their own needs.

well i would rather see these major choices based round whats best for the baby not always the parents.

Great post, Squiffy.

Yeah right bluegreysky. It's so much better for a child to have miserable martyrs for parents.

As Squiffy says, there is research to justify almost any standpoint on this issue which you choose to take. All research should be taken with a pinch of salt as it is very hard to get objective results - what after all are you measuring?

Without doubt there are good things about being a mother who stays at home with her children. Mine would love me to be there every day at the school gates to pick them up and drop them off and I would love to have more time to sit and read with them. However, (ignoring the obvious financial consequences) if I were to stop work, the reality would be somewhat different, I would probably become overwhelmed with the anxiety and depression I have fought off for years and the funny mummy which they like spending time with would disappear.

I am not trying to justify my childcare choices here, none of us needs to do that, but to make it clear that there are many reasons why people make the decisions that they do and not all of them are financial.

And what discustard do you suggest we do as an alternative to putting our children in playcare if we have no independent means?

perhaps you could advise what I should have done in this instance?

I took a year off when DS came along - adopted so he was 3 and a half. When I went back to work I did so on alternate shifts to my (now ex) DH as we worked for the same company. I worked 6 am - 1pm and ex DH looked after him until I came home and I then cared for him for the rest of the day when ex DH was at work from 2pm to 10pm so he always had one parent with him.

Pretty idilic in my opinion as we had to work to live but unfortunately DH decided to have multiple affairs, ran up huge debts and left us for his new girlfriend after deciding that he did not want the responsibility of being a husband and father so I had to change my working patterns.

My employer fit my hours around his school so I worked 7.45 - 3.15 (I took him into work for the first hour - no doubt that will cause alarm for you too!) and as I was not working as many hours as the rest of the staff I had to put him into playcare until 5 during the summer holidays to make up for the hours I missed during term time.

This arrangement suited us both, my son had my full attention after school and during the holidays he spent his days with other children having fun. He got to come home excited to show me the things he had made each day and he enjoyed his playcare.

Unfortunately his father decided to make my life a living hell for the next three years with nasty comments and physical and mental abuse. My employers did nothing about it saying it was a domestic situation and up to us to resolve or they would sack us both - even when I had raised red handprints on my chest from him striking me in the office in front of the other staff. He ignore our DS every morning and we were both very unhappy so I moved away.

My new job means that my DS has to go into playcare until I pick him up at 6.00 each night. I do feel guilty about it and wish I could spend more time with him but I have to work.

If I don't work the alternative is that i sit at home each day waiting for my 9 year old to come home with my day broken up only by the trips to the job centre to sign for my benefits.

I am capable of holding down a responsible and well paying job which allows my son a reasonably good lifestyle. Do I wish I could spend more time with him? of course. Do I wish I could have found another job to fit my hours around his school? Absolutely but in a rural area that was not possible so I am doing the best I can.

My son is loved, cared for and knows it. We have a good lifestyle and though I am still paying off the debts ex DH ran up - long story - we are close to being debt free. He had his 1st foreign holiday this year and he has a pet.

If you honestly think my son would be better off with his mother living off benefits which would have made me very unhappy indeed or you think I should have put up with his abusive husband to spend more time with my son then you are sadly living in a dream world.. or a nightmare world.

Not everything can be perfect and we all do the best we can but people constantly attacking is just tiring and pathetic. You get attacked for working, you get attacked for claiming benefits you just cannot win at all. The fact of the matter is that playcare is a necessary evil and my DS enjoys his playcare. He knows I would rather spend that extra time with him which is why all of my work holidays are taken with him in mind and he does not resent me for having to attend playcare.

On a slightly snide note, surely you should be spending your time with your lo's instead of attacking working parents on here?

I am a Nanny. In my first job the Mother said to me 'I'm not maternal, I don't really like babies. I've done my duty and that's why I want a Nanny.' At least she was honest! I did 24/5, the housekeeper covered my days off. She cried for me not her Mother. I left after 3 years because I knew she would never bond with her Mother if I stayed. Her Mother loved her and the time she spent playing with her was quality time, she just didn't want to be with her constantly. Out of my 4 full time Nanny jobs, none of the Mothers had to work. 2 worked part time as they wanted to earn their own money and be independant and 2 didn't work but wanted a life as well as children. I don't judge any of them as they paid my wages and were good employers. However I would give anything to be able to stay at home with my own DS who is 3months old. Sadly, financially, I can't. We wouldn't survive. I quit my job when I went on maternity leave (did proxy parenting, 6 wks a year abroad, weekends etc couldn't leave my own son!) and in an ideal world I'll find a new Nanny job where I can take my son. I realise these jobs are few and far between but as a good Nanny prior to having my baby, I feel I would be an even better one now as I completely understand the bond between mother and baby, the difficulties of breast feeding etc etc. If I can't, my son will have to go to a nursery or a child minder. It's not want I want but I don't really have a choice. In todays economic climate, I don't think many women do have a choice. Even if they do, I fully understand and support women who want to work for themselves and their own independance. Staying at home can be mind numbingly boring and bloody hard work at times. Some days I even DP going off to work and having adult conversations and not being permanently tied to a very demanding baby. The OP has a point to a certain degree but I don't think she's lived in the real world, is probably living at home with parents and not aware of the real cost of running a home. I worked in a Nursery for 5 years and when I left ( albeit 11 years ago ) I was earning £8000. The average wage for a NN now is about £12000 which is why the decent ones tend to end up going into nannying as the money is better. Still debating nursery staff wages would need a whole other thread.

LOL when my LO can
pay the mortgage
Pay for the foreign hholidays
the toys
the cd's
the internet
the food in the fridge

ooops no that is 2 adult wages so non negotiable.of course what is right for me is right for my child. i am the adult, with higher executive functioning, and a wage.

so yes my rules are da rule actually

lo pay for all above then we negotiate

And why would we listen to you bluegreysky after you posted that ludicrous post about Scotland, Nothern Ireland and paying taxes?
You talk some crap.

Correction, you didn't even know whether you were talking about Northern Ireland or Southern.

i think in an ideal world a baby/young child would be at home with the mum or dad.

i do feel sorry for babies in nurseries 10 hours a day from 3 months of age.

but very few women have the luxury of making this choice.
and its not an ideal world.

so all we can do is the best we can.
and hope its good enough.

be interesting to see what our children go on to do though regarding sah or woh though.
perhaps that will be the most telling thing of all?

must have missed that! the wee one was shouting instructions and i was diligently obeying

because obviously a lo knows best being completely egocentric and all that.

i dont intend to start taking my commands and directives from a child

what like baby lead life?
baby knows what is best
Aye that will be right

so actually Aye Happy mummy and the whole house is happy house

Let's not forget that- as I said before - some women WANT to go out to work, whether they need the money or not. This could be for a number of reasons, eg they see this as their break and they are doing something worthwhile in the process, they want their careers back, or a sense of self, they want their financial independence restored, etc etc etc..

i had my nursery place booked 12wk pg.always knew i'd go back ft

Scottishmummy,

That says it all. You don't half talk crap, why can't you express your views without being a whitch and trying to undermine others? FFS

not everyone enjoys motherhood the same, not everyone enjoys being in a boardroom the same.

why can't everyone just do what they are good at and enjoy doing the most?.

happyhoney, if you've ever read any of the SAHM/WOHM threads on MN, you'll see ScottishMummy always posts patronising and annoying posts, you get used to her, usually she's bleating on about "precious moments mamma's" or something equally ridiculous, she can't help herself

makes me embarrassed to actually be a Scottish Mummy!

no doubt she'll come back to me with a suitable hilarious insult

I think the answer to that is fairly obvious prettyladybird - not everyone has a choice about whether to work, and even for those who do, it is very difficult for every family member to have what is the absolute ideal for them all of the time. If you have a very traditional set up, with a husband who is happy to shoulder the entire financial burden, and also happy to be married to a wife who will happily stay home 24/7 doing all the child and home-related stuff, then I can see that this arrangement could work. But for most people, life isnt like that. My husband would hate to be married to someone who wanted to be home all day while he went out to work. We are both parents; we are both professionals. We both want the opportunity to use our skills and talents equally. And because life isnt black and white, this means discussion, compromise, being flexible. As I was the one who physically gave birth and breastfed, my career temporarily took a back seat while I was on maternity leave and then working part time for a phase. Then my husband worked flexibly for a while, and I was the main earner. Once the children were all in school, we have both been able to forge ahead more in our careers. At the moment, he is starting a job where he will earn considerably more than me. He will also be under more pressure, so I will take on a greater share of cooking, picking up kids etc Who knows? In two years time, our roles may reverse and I may be the main breadwinner. That's what relationships are about isn't it? - working together in partnership for the good of the whole family.

I think I'll just ignore her postings if that's the case CHELSYGIRL. Thanks for letting me know.