AIBU to think that once you have paid your childcare, its not really worth working.? Is it that you just don`t want to look after your own kid. prefering to stick them in daycare as soon as the shine wears off, it really bugs me!

[discusturd]

Some go from 7-6 and never see there parents, I know I will get slated but in the nursery I work some kids hardly know who their parents are.

For me the choice was: Bad, inconsistent, shouty, stressed parent in cluttered horrible house vs Lovely, clean nursery, nutritious home cooked organic food, consistent care-givers (all the staff had been there since the nursery opened 18 months ago apart from one girl who was providing maternity cover) and lots of lovely toys and other children to play with.

What choice would you have made, Titty?

Yes, you are very unreasonable. Not to mention just plain rude. If you are unable to empathise with your clients then you ought to choose another line of work because your attitude will infuraite your clients and they will take their business elsewhere... not a very good business plan.

If I took my kids to your nursery and heard you say something like this I would put in a formal complaint to your boss and tell all my friends what sort of judgemental cow you really are.

(haven't read the whole thread by the way. APologies if someone else has already said this)

Should I send my DD to full time nursery like a bad selfish Mummy and keep a roof over our heads or be homeless?

I just can't decide.

Yes, but not to the OP's nursery.

"there are good nurseries"

Yes - but even in good nurseries very small babies are not getting one to one care and they are not getting care from someone who is emotionally engaged with them in the way a parent/grandparent is. That's the point the research is making - it's not just about nurseries being well managed or otherwise - it's about the basic nature of the care that's being provided.

"For me the choice was: Bad, inconsistent, shouty, stressed parent in cluttered horrible house vs Lovely, clean nursery, nutritious home cooked organic food, consistent care-givers (all the staff had been there since the nursery opened 18 months ago apart from one girl who was providing maternity cover) and lots of lovely toys and other children to play with"

If you can't cope emotionally with being at home with your child to the extent that it makes you abusive or inconsistent then there may well be developmental and emotional benefits for your child having another care-giver (even in a nursery setting) who is able to provide a different type of care.

As for the issue of toys and a clean environment - children really don't give a damn, as long as it's safe and they are getting enough love and attention.

"Should I send my DD to full time nursery like a bad selfish Mummy and keep a roof over our heads or be homeless?"

Why bother making points like this? Is anyone suggesting that you should do this? Why be so defensive about it?

"the best person to do it is the mother"

If she is breastfeeding.

Otherwise, is there any reason twinkle, why a father cannot provide the same quality of care for his child?

"Yes - but even in good nurseries very small babies are not getting one to one care and they are not getting care from someone who is emotionally engaged with them in the way a parent/grandparent is. That's the point the research is making - it's not just about nurseries being well managed or otherwise - it's about the basic nature of the care that's being provided. "

Unless a child is a precious first born they won't get one to one care. There are plenty of mumsnetters who have three children under 5 or two children under two. What about people with twins? Anyway it can do a child good to realise that they aren't aways at the centre of the universe.

Not everyone has granparents who are capable of looking after young children. My FIL is prepared to help out, but sadly he is not mentally on the ball as he once was. His reactions are not fast enough to cope with six year old, yet a lone a young baby.

My only parents live too far away and my mother in law doesn't want to because she is registered blind and partially deaf.

I don't really think small babies give a damn, actually. I certainly think a very small baby will engage with pretty much anyone who gives it a bottle of milk, changes its nappy or spends any amount of time with it.

And the reason people are defensive, by the way, is because they don't like to be criticised on something which is probably the most important thing they'll ever do - ie, look after their children. You makes your decisions and you stands by them - because what else can you do? And for a lot of people there's no decision to be made, like in my case and in Ewe's case, so being criticised for it is pretty crap, actually.

Some of us don't want to return to work because we have to to keep a roof over our heads. Some of us want to return to work because we like work and we think it's important to continue working - it's not even a glittering carrer thing for me, I just can't imagine my sole job being looking after children, not even my own. Having children changes your life, sure, but there are options for child care and I will be taking them up.

"And the reason people are defensive, by the way, is because they don't like to be criticised on something which is probably the most important thing they'll ever do - ie, look after their children. You makes your decisions and you stands by them - because what else can you do? And for a lot of people there's no decision to be made, like in my case and in Ewe's case, so being criticised for it is pretty crap, actually. "

I could not agree more and I would have felt pretty crap if I had read such comments three years ago. It has to be remembered that the comments are just mere opinon and just based on hearsay. If the likes of Tinkle or Titty are going to make nasty the comments then they really need some sound proper evidence to base it on.

In fact my six year old goes to after school club five nights a week. He loves it. My son is gorgeous. He has lots of friends and had a really good school report. The head teacher's comment was that "A is well behaved little boy and an asset to the school."

theSuburbanDryad, Ewe if you have picked a good nursery I am sure that in a few years time you will have similar comments.

TTB i am struggling to reconcile your bleak portrayal of WaynettaSlob NurseryNurse whom you and presumably others passed.

if there are such incapeable unsuitable students out there why were you complicit in passing them?Morally and professionally did you not feel compelled to raise concerns?

with your condemnation of much nursery provision and experience of these allegedly inadequate students what did you do to whistleblow and flag up issues

or did you take the money, blame bureaucracy and do sweet fa

I think I love ScottishMummy...

twinkle - instead of judging parents who (for all you know) may have extremely valid reasons for putting their children into nursery from "dawn till dusk" why not write to your MP and campaign for better parental leave?

I presume you're planning to HE your children, and not put them into the schooling system until you feel they're ready?

"Unless a child is a precious first born they won't get one to one care."

Agree - but then they are rarely being cared for in groups of SIMILAR AGED babies. A baby has different needs from a 3 year old.

"Not everyone has granparents who are capable of looking after young children. My FIL is prepared to help out, but sadly he is not mentally on the ball as he once was. His reactions are not fast enough to cope with six year old, yet a lone a young baby."

No - this is true. I never suggested that having grandparents provide care if parents cannot will always be possible or desirable. You don't need to justify your decisions as to childcare.

Reallytired - we're not really discussing part time childcare for older children (something many people on this thread seem to have completely ignored, in their urge to have a rant at the OP).

Different age group, different issues.

Scottishmummy - if you have a student you feel is basically immature and emotionally needy it doesn't follow that she is incapable of passing a course - doing all her assignments and having good observations. That doesn't mean she is going to be the best person to assume full-time care for several babies at the same time, on a day to day basis.

Think about it - 17 and 18 year olds ARE usually emotionally needy and immature. The sort of girls who get onto nursery nursing courses aren't overwhelmingly those who have 9* grades at GCSE. Childcare is one of the most poorly paid jobs in society; compared to teaching, childcare courses disproportionately attact students from educationally and sometimes socially disadvantaged backgrounds. That doesn't make them dangerous or intrinsically unsuited to caring for children in some capacity, and it's not feasible to fail them for their personal and educational failings when they have completed the assigned work, have turned up regularly for college, have had reasonable assessments and observations. That doesn't mean I personally would feel happy to put my precious children into their care for 60 hours a week and I have major misgivings about such young, inexperienced and immature people having such a major input into the formative years of the children in their care.

And yes - I took the money. There was no 'whistle blowing' to be done because most people follow protocols most of the time. If I'd seen practice that was dangerous or abusive than I would have done something about it. However, I wasn't the one doing placement observations so this wasn't part of my remit. Also, like many people on this thread - I had a mortgage to pay and children to support.

Sometimes you have to compromise on what you think is best. I've had to do this in relation to my work and in relation to the way my children have been cared for while I'm at work. I just wish things could be different. Shouting at and abusing those who raise concerns about these issues on the basis that putting children in group childcare is a social necessity for some people is unfair and unhelpful IMO.

"You don't need to justify your decisions as to childcare."

Well, actually, we blatantly do as this thread proves!

And also, to pick up on this point:
"Unless a child is a precious first born they won't get one to one care."

Agree - but then they are rarely being cared for in groups of SIMILAR AGED babies. A baby has different needs from a 3 year old.

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So parents of multiples - who aren't actually that rare - are fucked then, really, aren't they?

Wanted to add before I get a mouthful of abuse - I know many nursery nurses who are mature, wonderful women. I'm not tarring all nursery nurses with the same brush. DS2 (4) has done 5 afternoons a week in a local children's centre for the last two years. The staff there are outstanding - really, really wonderful people.

"So parents of multiples - who aren't actually that rare - are fucked then, really, aren't they?"

No. Why do you put it like that? This is such a stupid way of discussing it.

"Well, actually, we blatantly do as this thread proves!"

Er - you don't you know. The OP wasn't commenting on your specific family was she? So why take her comments as a personal criticism?

As I said in my previous post I fully understand that some people Have to work. However, I know people who have put there kids into nursery when they were very small because they 'had to work' -but go on foreign holidays every year and live in big houses. I think for some 'have to' is debatable - I don't think going on holiday every year is a good enough reason to leave your baby FT in nursery. Sorry.

Is the OP talking about babies/kids being in nursery full-stop (ie even a couple of days a week) or solely FT?
My DS goes to nursery for two days; I do feel it really benefits him as he's a really sociable little chap.

TBB your position waxes and wanes from nursery nurses thick and immature etc to i^ didnt directly observe it not my job guv. No whistlkeblowing necessary keep 'm paycheques coming

so you had knowledge and/or concerns
colleagues shared information of allegedly unsuitable rough thick students

you did sweet FA

took the money, oh diddums because you have a mortgage

how ironic- so do other working parents

can you see any morality issues?

i am governed by a code of professional practice which means if i suspect oir know of poor practice or beleive a student to be unsuitable i am legally morally obliged to act

i have a duty of care

if i fail to do that my registration flies out a window (as it should)

my bottom line has always been would i want that student caring for my family

if i can say yes - fine. Any misgivings etc i take it to someone else for professional guidance

Happyhoney - how do you feel about people who put their kids in childcare and go back to work 'because they want to'?

Titty - the OP may not have been commenting on my individual family situation. I'm not really responding to the OP as it was obviously a troll and not worth discussing (and anyway, the point was that it wasn't worth putting your dc into childcare as most people couldn't afford it - which is such a silly point that it's not worth responding to) but plenty of people have come on since to say that people don't "need" to put their children in childcare, or that they only put their children in childcare to fund their lifestyles (Shock! Gasp!) so I certainly think that they think I (and others like me) need to justify their reasons to use childcare whether we actually do or not.

And parents of multiples are very common. Your argument that parents who have more than 1 child are looking after 2 age groups is completely invalid in those cases. If you have twins - or more - then you have to split your attention over those 2 children just as a nursery nurse would.