AIBU to think that once you have paid your childcare, its not really worth working.? Is it that you just don`t want to look after your own kid. prefering to stick them in daycare as soon as the shine wears off, it really bugs me!

[discusturd]

Some go from 7-6 and never see there parents, I know I will get slated but in the nursery I work some kids hardly know who their parents are.

night ladies i got work in the morning and gotta slam lo into nursery to recommence my avaricious life

Excellent post chibi.
I've avoided giving this thread the time of day up til now, because the OP is clearly a troll and doesnt deserve a proper response, but I think you raise a really important issue.
It's very easy to justify the decisions we make by claiming that it is the 'right' thing for our children. Let's be honest: no one can possibly know what is best for our children - we all make decisions, within the limitations of our personal situations, but we can't know whether our children will thank us for those decisions.
There was a post earlier from someone who said she loved being at home with her dd and didnt want anyone else to have the fun of that, she wanted it for herself. At least that's honest. She wasnt claiming that it was better for her dd, or that her dd would grow up happier. Just stating that she was making the choice because it was what she, the mother, wanted to do.
If you are fortunate enough to have a choice whether to work or not, then make your decision. Don't kid yourself that you are doing it because it's better for your child. You don't know whether it is or not.

To answer your question, it was worth going back to work. My childcare costs (including the nanny) were only about one tenth of my income.

What I would suggest to you discusturd is that you spend time learning to spell (because you work with children and it is important that signs and pictures are spelt correctly) and also that if your nursery is such a terrible place for children to be left that you spend your energy making it better for them. Speak to the management, use your childcare qualifications and knowledge to improve it.

i was in situation parallel to ReallyTired's.

i went back to work FT when dd1 was 2 months old and DH was a SAHD.

i can only imagine how my PND might have gone had i not.

"There have been many studies that haven't been able to show any negative affects of nurseries"

.... yes, but I'm afraid there have also been a good number recently which suggest that full time group day care for children and babies under 3 CAN have a negative affect on their emotional development.

For me it's a no-brainer. Do I want my baby to spend the builk of their waking hours during their most formative years being cared for by someone who may well a) be a teenager b) themselves have had poorer parenting than me c) be more poorly educated than me d) not be in love with my child or even like them much e) be caring for two other small children at the same time f) be someone who will build a relationship with my child and then disappear.

Scottishmummy - you work in HE, I work(ed) in FE. FE is very tough working environment for teachers now and has been for years. Those comments about 'bums on seats' and not being allowed to fail students - those are the reasons I got out. It was appalling.

BTW - have you read this book, or heard of it? I bought it last year and think it's really interesting on the subject of emotional development of babies and small children:
www.guardian.co.uk/books/2004/jul/17/highereducation.booksonhealth

Sorry - here

I can't believe how posters are teling discurd how to learn to spell etc., telling him/her to fuck off, generally being totally abusive to the op. I agree her thread title was very harsh, but so many of you seem to scream troll when someone makes a post going against what the general thinking on MN might be.

and would you post this to cod?

What I would suggest to you discusturd is that you spend time learning to spell (because you work with children and it is important that signs and pictures are spelt correctly)

replace "with children" with "as a magistrate"

no you wouldn't, so don't be so patronising to this poster

Chelsy, let me spell it out for you.
This person's posting name is:
"discus(s)"- ie lets talk about something
"turd" - ie shit

Hae you got it yet?

Do you think this first time poster has any respect for anyone on this board?

Do you think this poster is anything other than immature?

Do you want think many people wish to engage in personal conversations on family matters with this person?

If by some passing chance this person is real, (s)he has no empathy for her clients' parents and probably not a lot to spare for her small clients. Have you really got time to spend supporting & defending him or her?

Really,my advice is to save it.

thanks for spelling it out , I did actually work that out for myself

I just didn't like to abuse thrown at the op, it seems a bit over the top, for all we know the op could be genuine and working in a nursery and wonders how mum/dad can leave babies for so long each day....

or is that too far fetched for us to imagine?

The OP has a right to express a point of view on this subject without being subject to a load of personal abuse.

The fact is that there ARE bad nurseries, there IS good quality research throwing doubt on the value of full-time group childcare for babies, and there are parents who will put their own needs for stimulation and adult company ahead of their own child's needs for emotional security.

I empathise strongly with people who have to work - I went back to work when my oldest was 5 and a half weeks old so I know how hard it can be.

But empathising with people who HAVE to work doesn't necessitate that we shout down and abuse anyone who raises concerns about nursery care.

The OP is not blaming the nurseries, he/she is blaming parents.

there are bad mothers, that isn't really an argument to say that all mothers are bad.

is it so wrong to admit that if you have to spend 24 7 with your kids you might do something terrible - to them or yourself.

what good is metaphorivcally battering people who have very little choice.

Well - sometimes parents behave selfishly, don't they?

And sometimes children pay the price.

sometimes nursaries are fabulous and parents may wellhave done the correct thing

sometimes looking after ones own emotional wellbeing isn't a bad thing - if mother cant function very well then parenting isn't going to be great.

newsflash, sometimes parents have little choice - its either working or losing their home.

I think you have very few rights on an open forum tbh. And i think posting an offensive OP isn't the best way to get measured responses.
'stick them in daycare as soon as the shine wears off' is pretty grim.

putting a child into nursery care and having a job = damaged children?

Erm - no tittybangbang, I don't think so.
Some kids 'pay the price' under all sorts of circumstances.

Yes, you are right, parents and genetically predisposed to hate their kids.

You are expressing a shallow predjudice, not posing a valid argument.

putting a child into nursery care and having a job = damaged children?

Yes - sometimes.

But it's a complex issue and doesn't deserve the sweeping responses that it's getting here.

I think its unfair to compare a day nursery in the UK with a Romanian Orphanage of about ten years ago.

Tittybangbang, I fail to see how your link is relevent to the arguement.

Day nurseries have been around for sometime, its possible to see what six year olds who were at nursery full time are like or even 16 year olds.

Please find me a link that shows that children who were in full time nursery 16 years ago get worst GCSE results or take drugs or become criminals. Please show me a a proper scientific paper that shows that children are harmed by good daycare rather than some attachment parenting claptrap which is nothing but personal opinion.

I have found this link.

www.ucl.ac.uk/media/library/childcare

putting a child into nursery care and having a job = damaged children?

Not always.

But it's a complex issue and doesn't deserve the sweeping responses that it's getting here.

unless we have to quote research everytime we post - thats what this kond of debate is going to do.

and if one side brings up some research then another side could counter it. and i doubt whether it would be any better.

i like hearing peoples opinions and the validation for them.

i am so glad that mumsnet doesn't require someone to attach an appendix with each post.

Wanted to add - that if children's needs for emotional security during that crucial period of development (1 - 3) was put at the centre of things in terms of benefits and social support, then perhaps there wouldn't be so many of us who were forced back into work at this time.

I do get a bit weary of the number of mums who shout down (without seriously considering) voices raising concerns about the impact of group childcare on children's development.

If there is truth in the view that it is best for very small children and babies to be looked after by ONE engaged caregiver during their formative years, then of course it's going to be socially and economically inconvenient for a large number of adults.

Does that mean we should just ignore this research or throw mud at people who raise these concerns? Because it poses an economic and social dilemma for adults?

Or would it be better to discuss finding ways around it which put children's needs at the centre? Like better support for SAHMS or SAHDS? More opportunities for jobshares, better and more training for childminders, financial support for family members who are offering care to grandchildren/neices etc while parents work.

It is possible to apply the principles of AP whilst putting your child into daycare.

No, really. You have to be a bit careful about the daycare you choose - but which parent wouldn't be anyway?

The way I see it, we were not designed to bring our children up in secular, nuclear families. I really struggled with having ds all day, with little or no other adult contact. I don't think I'm alone in that feeling. Add some pretty severe PND issues on top of a bi-polar disorder and you have a really bad mix. Going back to work - albeit only 3 days a week - was the answer for me. It meant that ds wasn't in the company of someone who - in the worst case scenario - could very well have done him some harm, and - in the best case scenario - was not the fantastic care giver she (I) should have been. It had the added bonus of me being more relaxed and happier on the days I did spend with him.

I was very lucky, in that I could choose to return to work. Most parents are not in this position - they have to work or the mortgage doesn't get paid, the bills don't get paid. Often it's not a case of downsizing or budgeting better either. They have to work or the kid wouldn't have a house to live in.

I also agree wholeheartedly with Chibli. No-one asks my dh how he feels putting ds in nursery (he does the drop-off once a week). No, he is allowed to work, he is Man. I am Woman, so I must stay home and service my family - no matter the cost to myself. And no matter the cost to dh, who would love to be a SAHP (and would be much better at it than I was) but who really couldn't afford it.

The whole question is a no-brainer, really. And the OP is obviously a troll - but (s)he's certainly made us do what we do best: Beat each other up over our parenting choices.

seriously consider it all you like - if the alternative is that your going to lose your home if you don't work - it really doesn't matter.

i am sure that there are bad nurseries - but there are rotten parents too

its the way that you couch a thing is it not? - there are good nurseries and also good parents

why not put systems in place to make sure that the nurseries are excellent - whilst you are making these recommendations titty?