to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

May I suggest that the GP possibly is still dealing with her own issues if she feels so stongly about attacking the NCT. Part of my training involves reflecting on your own issues so you can identify what pushes your buttons, something that is common to MVs and HVs.

We are all shaped by our own experiences and often look elsewhere to blame when dealing with a sense of failure.

oops meant MWs!

even after reading everything on this thread, i still am not convinved NCT is the way forward personally. will just stick with the free NHS antenatal classes.
you shouldn't have to pay to go to classes to inform you of choices in birthing/after birth. it excludes those who cannot afford those hefty payments. that's a ridiculous amount of dosh to be charging a couple.

Gateau - I'm very glad you started the thread. I thought I was the only one to have had a pretty useless experience of NCT.

For me the issue was the whole unreality of the NCT classes - the teaching was a bit of a fairy tale of soft lights and gentle music.

I didn't mind the breastfeeding agenda - I planned to breastfeed and I did breastfeed - but I can see that it would alienate some mothers who couldn't/wouldn't breast feed.

The natural childbirth thing was stressed very strongly in my lessons. The teacher had given birth in a hut on a desert island somewhere (no joke) and was big on breathing. As far as I can recall, the only person who brought up pain relief was me and it was not properly covered - the teacher briefly mentioned epidural and gas and air. All the other trojans in the class were absolutely resolute that they were not going to be wusses (of course in the event they all did use pain relief).

that's exactly why i will steer well clear of NCT classes, Quattrocento. The cost is the main reason I wouldn't go, plus all the other rubbish that's been spouted. It's all just coming across airy fairy.

I've just finished my NCT classes. Obviously I can't tell exactly how useful they are until I give birth, but I think they were pretty good and unbiased - one of the 8 sessions was on pain relief, we spent half a session on caesarians and a lot on post-birth recovery.

One of the most useful aspects was hearing what the two local hospitals are really like and what sort of care you are likely to get.
It was £279 for the course including NCT membership, which I think was a bit steep, but on the other hand in my part of South London you have to book NHS antenatal classes when you concieve. So in my case it was cough up for NCT, or nothing!

However all my SILs have also had NCT classes around the country this year. One said they were quite good but not much you couldn't get from books, one only made it to one class (luckily was on discounted £20 rate), and the other complained the teacher was very 'hippyish' and basically said 'pain relief is bad'.

So I think I did the best - our tutor could cite evidence for almost everything she said and whether it was a randomised controlled trial or a dodgy small study.

Probably helped that all 6 of us were planning hospital births but hoping for low intervention if possible, planning to breastfeed if possible (with supportive partners), had similar amounts of background knowledge, etc. It must be hard for a tutor if half the class want a drug-free homebirth and the other half just want to be drugged up to the eyeballs as soon as possible!

what is, sm007? £130? that's more the norm tbh. and it's a charity, if you can't afford it you make a token donation.

GPs are human professionals and should not be using language like zealots etc to their patients. if she is, i'd be surprised tbh.

as i say, many different approaches by many different teachers mentioned here. we spent a very good portion of our classes on pain relief, what was available, what were the advantages and disadvantages etc.

if the women in your class went in saying they didn't want pain relief at all, then i can see how that wouldn't have been discussed in detail. the class leads the teacher, at least to some degree.

Mine were awful. Some woman droning on and on. No activities, nothing to engage us.

That's why I'm training to be an ANT.

Not to indoctrinate or distribute propaganda but to make sure women get all the information they need to make decisions that are right for them be it a C-section or an epidural. So that none of it is too much of a surprise or even shock for them.

I thought the NCT course I did was OK, the teacher was warm if a bit vague and I met some great women who I am still friends with. BUT I did take a lot of what was said with a large pinch of salt having had lots of friends and family members who had had children warn me that birth often doesn't go according to the plan.think if I hadn't known that I might have been in a state of shock after my actual birth.

The bit that was really unhelpful to be honest was the breastfeeding councillor who ran a dedicated session as part of the course. We all intended to breastfeed, but most of us had known people who had had problems so we had some real questions about possible difficulties. The councillor acted as though we were trying to 'get out of' breast feeding and just kept repeating that it was best for baby and perfectly natural.

I found this frustrating because I agreed with many of her basic points but she was so dogmatic she ended up alienating the group. For example she said that we should not get hung up on weight charts and be wary of automatic advice to top up with formula. I agree with this up to a point, but I have seen my nephew losing so much weight he nearly ended up in hospital because despite all the help going from a series of breast feeding councillors (and she had some really supportive women helping her) my sister simply was not producing enough milk. I asked if your baby was not gaining weight at what point you might have to admit defeat and she said 'never - would nature allow women to not be able to feed their babies?' This is simply stupid because sadly the answer is sometimes yes.

She treated all questions in a similar way. I am very pro breast feeding and it really annoyed me to see how unhelpful she was.

We did all give very negative feedback for that session, and I suppose the upside was that we bonded as a group in our response to her!

My community midwife also warned all her local mums who asked her to be "careful" around the NCT and see it primarily as a way to meet other mums, which she felt was the thing that made it worth while - to build support networks and friendships - and not to rely on the information they were given.

I really don't think she was bringing her own issues into play - her problem with the local NCT was that their teachers were repeatedly exaggerating figures and statistics and making mothers terrified about having sections.

My midwife was incredibly supportive of natural birth and came round to see me daily for as long as I needed to help me with breastfeeding, (often buying me chocolate out of her own pocket as a pick-me-up when I was really struggling) - so I don't think she disagreed with a lot of their concepts just the militant way some of the teachers were choosing which information to impart/not impart to their classes.

I feel much better knowing that there are other people who felt the same way about the NCT antenatal classes, I had kind of assumed that we were few and far between on MN.

BTW there were absolutely NO uber middle class yummy mummies or daddies at my NCT antenatal classes. Bad stereotyping there Really Tired.

Exterminaitch, I am summing up what she said to me. Obviously she doesn't use the word 'zealots' to patients - I doubt it, anyway. But she is within her rights, when mentioning the NCT to patients, to say that there is a certain element - not the majority, a certain element - within the organisation who are lack tolerance about certain matters.

Why should she have a sense of failure, Linden? Care to elucidate? I genuinely don't know what you may be referring to. She is an intelligent, highly educated and actually very easygoing woman, with two (she's since had another one) beautiful daughters. She had a nasty experience with her local NCT class. She is not saying they are all rubbish (and if you have read my previous posts, neither am I, because as far as I can tell, they are merely variable) and she may be a GP but they could still have opinions, last time I checked with the GMC.

Now I'm worried having read this thread.

Friends who had been to NCT classes have encouraged us to go, but my aunt, who's a consultant gynae, and my cousin's girlfriend, who's a GP's practice nurse both said to me at a family party recently not to get "brainwashed" by the NCT. It does seem that there are mixed experiences.

We are booked on to a course in October, but I'm a bit worried I'm going to feel either pressurised or defensive. By the time the course starts, I will have made my decisions, I just want a bit of support and advice in those last few weeks! It was an expensive thing to pay for, I did some online research, but I am concerned that it will be a waste of time for me and DH!

I have found this thread very interesting. When pregnant with my first child, I was warned off NCT antenatal classes by a friend who had had a very negative experience much like the ones cited by various people on this thread. Although various members of my extended family were insistent that I should join the NCT. I wasn't going to bother with antenatal classes at all and then thought I might as well give the NHS ones a go as they were free. Didn't learn anything very much. But I did go to an NHS breastfeeding workshop which I found very useful. Didn't go to AN classes at all the second time around and have never even contemplated making birth plans and all that stuff. Always figured that I'd be likely to give birth whether or not I went to a class and didn't see any point in making plans about something when I had no idea how it was going to turn out. Have had 2 dhs - one dc with each - and neither of them went to AN classes at all. Both dhs attended the births of their respective children and were supportive and helpful (although dh1 only up to a point because he was p*ssed as a fart, but I don't think attending AN classes would have helped with that ).

I think it depends on the teacher - ours was great. We had 8 sessions and covered whole range of things from late pg, through labour and also early parenting.

My MW had warned me that 'NCT doesn't cover pain relief' , but we had a whole session on this, and were encouraged to ask questions, talk about concerns etc. I remember the teacher using Playmobil figures to show who would be in the operating theatre if you had a CS (which a couple of the group ended up with) and what the procedure entailed.

We also had a whole spectrum of couples in the class, from terrified 'I want an epidural as soon as labour starts' to the wafty hippy homebirth types.

The social aspect was secondary for me as DH & were youngest in the group and didn't have as much in commmon with the rest.

Pookamoo are your friends who have attended NCT and are happy with the experience local to you? If they have had the same teacher - you will probably find it useful too.

I think from the thread so much of whether people have a positive or negative view of the NCT revolves around their experience of individual teachers. So if your local teacher is balanced and helpful, you will probably find it valuable as she should prepare you for the birth process as much as possible without making you feel intimidated/guilty.

I'm far more wary of medical people than any organisation like the NCT. I've found the medics to be far more scare mongering than anyone and they really really don't like people who have done some research and who try to make up their own minds about stuff.

You can, after all, take or leave the information the NCT tries to show you. But when you're at your most vulnerable, it's the medics who are there.

Second hattyyellow's comment re. teacher. I've had a good one and a bad one.

I did both NHS and NCT and I think they complemented each other well. My NCT class (2 sunday's in a row a the local mat.hospital) were I think balanced - we did a mix of theory and practical - there was plenty on how DH/DP can support the mother and all the pain relief options were covered. It was quite helpful that the class supporter had given birth at the hospital so she could share some of her experiences. We also did sessions on early babycare such as changing nappies and washing etc. I liked the fact we had plenty of time to discuss things and it all seemed quite relaxed.

The NHS classes were a bit more condensed (I think they were 4/5 weeks eveings so we were often tired from work) and there was less practical and reflection etc but what was good about them is they covered in more depth local practice and if you were going to give birth at the hospital lots of the practicalities.

Breastfeeding was coverd in both and it be honest though the advice was sound I think it was very idealistic - no real mention was mde of how hard it can be (I guess they don't want to put you off) personally I would liked them to be a bit more honest that it can be v hard and what to do if you find it difficult - personally I would like to have been prepared for this better.

Pookamoo - I think NCT courses can be a great way to meet other parents-to-be even if the teacher isn't always brilliant. Not everybody makes life long friends, but a lot of people do. NHS courses can be good for this too, although they are often bigger groups so less chance to get to know people and in my area they stopped running half way through the course!

Only read first few posts...

I only paid £85 for a 7 week course (4 weeks on labour and antenatal, 1 week on bf and 2 weeks on postnatal) so those who paid £140 have been ripped off imho!

In the end 4 out of 8 in our class had cs's and only 1 had a 'natural' delivery without intervention or epidural and we all felt that we weren't properly prepared for this and that the information given was a bit biased. However although it was biased to give us more info on managing without intervention at no time were we made to feel that any for of intervention was wrong or not acceptable. Nor did any of us feel pushed into bf. In fact when myself and another mum went back to report back to the next group about our experiences the fact that I had had a section and she was bottle feeding was discussed and we were both praised by the teacher for doing as well as we could and doing the best things for ourselves and our babies.

I have however heard horror stories about other teachers and it nearly put me off going. I am so so glad I did as I have lifelong friends and found it a very positive experience in all even though not necessarily for the reasons I thought I might.

Haven't read the whole thread yet but the OP sounds spot-on, from what I've heard about NCT antenatal classes. I didn't sign up for NCT because I was at cost. It seems to me that people pay that amount of money to make sure that they meet the 'right' sort of people - ie affluent middle-class ones - who will all reinforce each other's opinions/prejudices about natural birth, breastfeeding, etc. It seems pretty narrow and claustrophobic to me.

Message withdrawn

A sensible, balanced post, imo Pruners. Hurrah.