genuine question about the naughty step/time out

[lucyellensmum]

OK - so it works? I guess it does because everyone seems to be doing it but i honestly don't get it. So its my perception that im questioning here instead of the concept itself. I don't disagree or agree with the naughty step, im genuinely interested.

Firstly, does a young child really understand this? If you stick a small toddler on the naughty step - do they REALLY understand why they are there? As in, do they spend that time reflecting and then behave better, or do they just sit there because angry mummy put them there so best they stay there - their little minds start to wander and they forget about being naughty/having the tantrum. (OK so that works but is that what the baby bible bashers want us to believe?)

Secondly: A tantruming, possibly older toddler, are they actually going to stay there? Seriously, if the child is being that bad, they are going to just keep getting off the step, no reflection in that - i guess if they sit compliantly on the step then i wonder if it is a game to them?

I have used the naughty step with DD, at first it sort of worked, but it genuinely upset her or she got bored and wandered off. I don't bother now.

I tend to parent instinctively and dont really use any techniques - i would say my DD is slightly spoilt (thats partly DPs fault and partly mine for different reasons), but generally a well behaved little girl.

Enlighten me?

LOL!

I may be the unsuspecting fool who used the term "liberal". I do consider myself to be liberal in many ways and I do believe in consequences - ie if child throws toy inside house, I do say "no, we do not throw toys in the house, if you do it again I will take it for a while until you remember how to play with it without throwing". And if necessary I then take away the toy for a while.

I have used what we call "the thinking chair" sparingly, but do consider it being more about calming down an overexcited child and giving myself some breathing space than anything else.

I was the child of a fairly authoritarian parenting structure and I vowed that I would not parent my child with such chronic emphasis on perfect behaviour, which is achievable by no-one. I have yet to meet a perfect adult (however they were raised) and so I do not expect perfection from my children. But I do believe that, at heart, children want to please their parents and that really bad behaviour often stems from neglect - where children crave any attention, including negative as a substitute for positive attention.

I do not believe in permissiveness - anything goes. People dislike the word liberal because they think it is a synonym for permissive. Look it up in a thesaurus, it is not.

Butterfly, my choice of underwear has now been debated on a public forum, and I blame you for daring to mention 'libeal parenting!'

I think it's an awful idea. I never used it and 3 children are now at university stage and 2 still at school and they seem to behave perfectly well and turned into very reasonable adults, the older ones.

Just do as you feel is right. People sweat the small stuff too much. Half the time children get in a state because you're in a state. They are like little mirror, mirroring your own mood. Trying laughing or distraction or ignoring. Much nicer way to deal with stuff. Look for causes too like they're tired or eaten badly. Take the plank out of your own eye before you go around castigating children and imposing ridiculous punishments.

You are right though, I do (or did) believe that liberal meant anything goes.

I stand corrected.

I use the naughty step with my toddler (2.5) and have done since he was about 18mo old. He sits on it maybe once every couple of weeks. I find it works absolutely fine. We call it the naughty step too.

So far, signs that I am damaging him appear non-existent. Something to discuss with his therapist later in life perhaps? [hmmn]

even

VS - but he's (my ds) not even 2yo yet, i don't think he'd understand if i told him all the stuff you said about anger and frustration and how would you feel... and he often does not out of anger and frustration, but for no apparent reason, in a casual manner, almost to see what happens. he knows it's wrong and will often look at me straight away after and say, NO hitting (while frowning, which really makes it really hard for me to not laugh).

i'm not really sure what to do with it tbh. also i seem to have hikacked someone else's thread, soz...

Have only scanned the thread, but IMHO time out/ naughty step isn't so much a punishment as taking the child out of a heated situation and giving them time to think.

Obviously at 2/3 they aren't going to sit there and reflect, but it draws a line under it and stops that instance. So if there is an incident with another child at playgroup, I'd remove my child and have him sit with me for two minutes. He'd calm down, and could go back to it.

It is different from using it as a sanction - "If you do that you will go on the naughty step" for instance IMO.

I used it for my toddler and he got it straight away. He also got that if he said 'sorry' he got it over with pretty quickly too.

lol at hughjarssss's knicker expose.

bb, I would just laugh. Children respond better to positive things, than negative.

Often it's the parent in a state not the child and the best remedy is leave the child and go into another room until you've calmed down.

At our childminding course they said that if you use a "naughty step" always make sure it is at the bottom of the stairs as some kids think that if they touch it they will become naughty.
They told us of kids jumping down the stairs to avoid the top stair with nasty results.
They reckon you should use a brightly coloured or patterned cloth or small mat that can be moved around to different parts of the room and the child has to sit on it as part of "time out" which is the recomended method.

Xenia I completely agree with your last two posts - very wise advice

I agree with xenia's last 2 posts aswell.
Also yours, HonoriaGlossop, at 16:24.

I tried the naughty step when my DS1 was about 2.2 for hitting etc and it completely backfired, he loved the added attention it would draw to the situation,

In the end up we totally ignored him when he hit and gave whoever he hit loads of attention and he soon stopped.

also gave him stickers for good behaviour

i have a problem with using the term naughty step after I heard he talking to himself saying "me a naughty boy" when he hadn't done anything

I use time out for when I feel my dd (2.5yrs) needs some time out and very occasionaly it gets used when I need some time out! The most common offence is hitting, as my dd like most two year olds doesn't always respond well to being told no (ie no you can't have ice cream for breakfast!) I am finding it works well in terms of dealing with the behaviour, explaining what she has done that mummy doesn't like and then once she has sat there for two mins and appologised we can kiss and make up and move on. I am sure that my dd is testing boundaries and learning consequences which is what everyone needs to know and will stand her in good sted! I have found her a couple of times reprimanding teddy over hitting her and being placed in time out!!!!

boozybird, if he wouldn't understand things like anger it's very unlikely he'd 'understand' the naughty step.

If it was such a young child I'd distract, distract, distract. Take him away from the situations before it arises, but if all that fails/isn't possible and he was to hit someone (With my DS it was often the cat) I'd make a huge fuss of, 'awww, poor cat, that hurt poor cat, that's not nice, poor cat, poor cat' etc so he realised that his action had a consequence, that consequence is cat being hurt, not being forced to sit on a stair.

As he gets older it would stand you in good stead for the anger/frustration type talk.

Overact completely, with children they learn by a million other things before they take note of words, facial expression, tone of voice etc are the most important things. I am more likely to pull a 'Oh, DS ' than 'RIGHT! Stairs! now!' and it works much better.

You need do what feels right for you and works within your own family. I think there are a range of happy families and ways of bringing up children some like mine and some very different but which all work. However at the extremes - the cane for misdemeanours (a criminal offence) or the other extreme - can do anything they like (unwise) then parents are objectively wrong.

Distraction works fine. My mother was very good at it I think from all her years as a teacher of 5 and 6 year olds.

Any child worth it's salt will use specific punishments, time outs, naughty steps for their own ends if they've half a brain.

hmmn, VS, get your point. we don't 'do' angry or shouting or scolding in our house, so he wouldn't know angry because he's never seen it. we do a lot of over acting faces (big frown to show not happy, massive smiles to show happy at good behaviour etc.). i think generally we're doing OK, but if he does bonk a kid on the head in the sandpit i do get a bit stuck. i have tried the 'giving injured party attention' thing and have found that doesn't work if you're in a public situation with kids you don't know who often don't want your attention (they are upset and want their parents, not some strange woman whose kid is trying to beat them up!), so have given up on that. so i will take him out of the sandpit (off the slide, whatever), explain that i don't like him hitting, big frowns all round, and... then what???? that enough? he'll do it again 10 mins later, especially if another kid gets too close to him (he likes his space!).

I find the naughty step works a treat.
DS1 is 2.10 yrs and whether he understands it or not properly - it works!

He sits on the naughty step once perhaps every couple of weeks, but gets threatened with it as a consequence probably once every few days!

He sat on it this morning. He was pushing his baby brother. I said 'DS STOP pushing DS2, it is dangerous'
He grinned and did it again.
I said 'I am going to tell you one more time to stop and if you do not stop I will sit you on the naughty step' 'Please STOP pushing DS2'
He pushed him again. I sat him on the naughty step.
he came off after 2 mins, said sorry to me and DS2 and gave us both cuddles then we all played again.

If I hadnt used naughty step from past experience he would have either carried on pushing DS2 or I would have physically had to take him away cue tantrums and upset all round.

I really think it depends on the child. With my eldest (now 8)there has never been any need to use the naughty step (possibly because when he was first born no one had heard of it). Just the mere suggestion that we are displeased with his behaviour is enough to imporve it. The only time he did something really naughty and persisted (can't even rember what it was now) we took his cd player out of his bedroom for a week and now just the threat of that is enough. However my 8 yr old doens't like fuss or drama.

The 3 yr old is a different kettle of fish. He does naughty things just to get a reaction becuase he LOVES drama and fuss. I started with naughty step when he was 18 months when he started hitting people. Our naughty step is the bottom step of the stairs in the hallway. I realised why NS works so well with him is because he can't bear removed from where all the fun is. As I said he loves drama and fuss so the biggest punishment is for him to have all theh attention removed from him. I usually make sure there are lots of noises of us 'enjoying' ourselves without him to reinforce the message that good behaviour gets attention and naughty doesn't. He is nearly 4 now and we very very rarely need to use naughty step. Just the threat of it will suffice and we are moving more to withdrawing treats as a punishment which also works well.

Boozybird!!! Of course he'll do it again 10 minutes later. There are no consequences to his actions. Pulling silly face really doesn't cut it and if it was my child who had been hit over the head by yours I wouldn't be impressed!!!

Boozybird.Sorry but I have read all your posts now. You don't elaborate on what you mean by removing them from the situation??!!. Does that mean he's hit someone on the slide so you take him to the swings instead or do you leave the park completely?? My 3 year old is expected to say sorry for naughty behaviour but I agree it is just a word when they 3 and less. However his sorry does seem a lot more meaningful after he has been on naughty step and yes maybe he is truely sorry because he's had time out for two minutes and missed out on two minutes of fun but he does start getting a correlation of I did something naughty which hurt or upset someone else and I have now I've had to suffer in return. I can't see in any of your posts that your child really suffers any consequences at all.

See, I used to say "Ohhhh Ds1, that poor poor cat! You just kicked her, she must be so sad, we don't want to make her sad, do we?"

And he looked at me blankly and walked off.

He did not care if the cat was hurt. He genuinely didn't see the relevence of the cat's pain to his life, so why would he have stopped before doing it again?

he did actually used to kick our cat. He liked to see it run off. I lost my temper one day and told him if he kicked the cat again he'd be going to bed. He stopped then.

Boozybird, I'm afraid you're teaching your kid that if he's naughty, you pull faces.