to expect not to be made to leave 6 year old dd in the car on her own by the police.

[islandofsodor]

Dd had to be picked up from school early on Friday so as it was the first off the drive I took dh's car which I drive once in a blue moon.

Big mistake, his numer plate was not spaced correctly so I got pulled. It was on a dual carriageway with no hard shouler and I didn't feel I could safely stop so pulled off at the next junction which led onto a supermarket car park.

I got out of the car telling dd just to wait there a minute fully expecting to be booked for the numberplate.

The policeman started to have a go at me accusing me of failing to stop of a police office. I was terrified at this point and just kept repeating calmly, I'm sorry I was just trying to find a safe place to pull up I really was. Anyway he told me to get into the back of his car.

I indicated to dd and started to say I've got my little girl in there can I just get ....but her stopped me short and said he (his colleague who had got out and was running a reg check on his radio) can see her, you get in the back so I did. Anyway he started to take me through the process, fair enough, checking my details, was it my car, was I insured etc etc. I glanced up and dd was sobbing her little heart out crying Mummy, Mummy. They asked me her name and one of them went to talk to her but she sobbed louder so he eventually opened the car doo, lifeted her out and put her in the back of the police car with me.

I managed to calm her down whilst trying to take in the details of the booking and desperately trying to keep calm so it would just be a numberplate offense rather than failing to stop.

He started to explain about the reason it was an offense and an automatic vehicle tracking thing they have for stolen vehicles, dd was listening intently and he said "if your car was stolen with your little girl in it we wouldn't be able to find it" Couldn't he have just said stolen rather than scaring dd even more.

I was shaking by the end of it all, I know they have a job to do but it just seemed so insensitive to a little girl who thought her mummy was being taken away.

you haven't answered the question smallwhitecat. HOW would they automatically know that this wasnt a mother abducting her child from the custody of the father?? How do you know someone in this situation would definitely speed up and start a police chase?? I'd say it's more likely that in this scenario the person would stop and try to cooperate with the police - it would give them more chance of making a successful abduction.
To say it would all be obvious unless they were fuckwits is a crass attempt to avoid answering the question!!

Hang on, I think badly spaced number plate = child abduction is the overreaction here!!

The police expected her to stop her car in the slow lane of a dual carriageway and leave her child in the back!

Agree wholeheartedly with Wannabe.

And,
Why is a 6yr old so afraid of the police? My own son thinks they are fab, and at 3yrs old, would find it very exciting if I went and sat in the back of their car, and would most likely watch in avid fascination, not scream in terror...... (and he is generally speaking quite a cautious and sensitive little boy, so prone to being anxious)

but that is your little boy, all children are different

No, Stealth, you have misunderstood! No one has said badly spaced number plate = child abduction LOL.People have simply pointed out that the police don't know when they pull a car over whether it's stolen etc etc etc. And I doubt the police are going to choose to stop where it's unsafe unless they have a death wish!

Well I wasn't there smallwhitecat! We don't know what signs there may/may not have been of anything else untoward. We only have the OPs version of events. If the second officer had taken charge of the girl, this could potentially have caused more distress, as she seems to have a fear of police officers anyway. And then the OP would be complaining that the police officer intimidated her dd!!!
As I said before, simple solution is not to drive a car you know has dodgy number plates. It's asking for trouble really isnt it! And it wasnt as though the OP was in a crisis situation and had to pick up her dd and had no other car. She just couldnt be bothered to switch the cars around on her driveway!!

'Parent marched off' is rather emotive! She was sitting in the police car in view! I don't understand why the officer's actions are 'even worse' if there were signs of things untoward. And sorry but I don't understand your last sentence at all.
I guess the answer is that if the OP is so concerned to not place her child in this situation, then she doesnt knowingly commit a driving offence. If I knew that my child would be petrified if I were pulled over by the police, the last thing I would do is choose to pick up my child in a car with an unlawful number plate!!

Unfortunately the police aren't at any point inside your head...

they cannot be aware that you carried on driving up the dual carriageway and left at the next exit to go into the relative safety of a car park - they just saw someone carrying on driving whey they had indicated for you to stop.

They cannot be sure that you are just returning to your car to explain something to your daughter or to take her out of the car - people with knives and guns in their cars often also have children.

I'm sorry your daughter was distressed - however you need to explain to her the the police are there to help good people and they have to be hard sometimes and not let mummies back to the car because not everyone is as good a mummy as you are.

The real villan of the peice - I'd certainly be telling your DH to grow up - I'd have expected a boy racer of 18 to have a car with a nobby numberplate out of vanity - I wouldn;t however have expected a married man with children to be so vain as to break the law. Would you have been stopped at all if his number plate was correct. No.

I realise every child is different, but I just wonder why this particular little girl was so afraid in the scenario described. He does not sound overly scary to me, tbh.

It's either a case of -- mum slowly pulling over, explaining calmly, glancing in rearview mirror 'oh, the policemen look like they want to talk to me, how exciting/interesting/fun, I'll just go and talk to them and then I will come back, okay?'....

Or, mum sees police flashing lights behind, starts saying loudly 'oh shit, the bloody police, jesus, what do they want?', and gets out the car in a panic once stopped, leaving, with no explanation to the little girl, who of course by this point has picked up from her mother's language that these people are horrible, and something to be afraid of.

I am not for one minute trying to say what did happen, just it is easy for a small incident to play out very differently, and I believe the concerns of the child are influenced hugely by the parent's behaviour.

And of course, the op's daughter has been described by her as very sensitive, if I remember correctly, so in which case it was just unfortunate and however the op reacted she would have been upset. But then, take her with you in the first place.

But, not the policemen's faults.

'it' does not sound overly scary, not 'he'. oops.

failing to stop is not a minor traffic offence.

It can carry a sentence of up to 6 months imprisonment, a heavy fine, between 5-10 penalty points or a discretionary disqualification. (dependent on the reasons for failing to stop of course).

The op had not been asked to stop and leave her child on a dual carriageway, she had been asked to stop on the carriageway yes, but presumably had she done so the police officer would have sked about the number plate and issued the penalty accordingly. Given she didn't stop the matter became more serious, so at the point she stopped the police officer then required her to get into the policecar, presumably because he didn't want her to do a runner.

It might not have been obvious at all that the op's dd wasn't being abducted. If it was a mother abductin her child from father who had custody, the child would most probably be totally comfortable in the presence of her mother so would not arouse suspicion.

Absolutely wannabe. And bergen, your post is excellent. Children pick up on how a parent reacts. If the mother had reacted calmly and reassured her child, then there is a better chance she would not have been so distressed. And if she is a particularly sensitive child, then I return to my point: why did the OP knowingly drive her child in a car which she knew had a dodgy number plate and put her at risk of being pulled over?? The OP needs to take responsibility for putting her dd in this situation, not make this very stupid choice and then blame everyone else.

I got pulled over once - turned out to be a car seat survey being conducted by local council and police - but I thought the correct procedure was to stay in your car and wait for the police to come to you?

That way they can see that you have a small child (in my case I'd been stopped because I had a small child). And then there's chance to explain to the child/ask for child to come with.

I was stick cacking it though. I'd only just left home, turned right out of the road and a police car that had been parked pulled out and started following me!

Well hindsight is a wonderful thing isn;t it.

To answer a few questions.

Once the flashing lights came on I looked to see if there was a hard shoulder or layby to pull into, there wasn't but the slip road leading up to a roundabout was just ahead. I slowed down and indicated. I momentarily considered stopping on the roundabout but though I would completely block it if I did so so I indicated again and travelled slowly to the car park.

Dd asked me, why are we going to Asda. I said to her the I just need to stop a moment because the policemen want to speak to me. Why she asked, oh probably because of Daddy's silly number plate, you just stay here and I'll go and have a quick word with them.

I got out of the car as I assumed I had to and approached their car. The 1st policeman made no attempt to even get out of his car but started to have a go at me. It was only then that the second officer got out and approached the other side of my car (opposite door to dd's, nowhere near to me) and spoke into his radio thingy. The conversation with me standing outside and the policman inside the car lasted 2, maybe 3 minutes. It was then I was asked to get into the back of his car. It was a hot afternoon, dd's window was open but it was hot.

Someone said you should call 999 and tell them of your intentions. I do not have a mobile phone and certainly would never use it whilst driving.

I was asked to get in the police car when stopped about speeding. I think it is standard procedure whilst they are filling in their forms.

I was asked to drive on for about half a mile, so both cars could be safely parked off the main road.

FWIW, I wouldn't have pulled over on a dual carriageway with no hard shoulder either.

It's unsafe, and surely it's contravening some rule or law or point in the highway code about legal and safe parking?

I was always told that you should stop where safe.

Also that it was perfectly acceptable to drive to the nearest police station and stop there if you have any concerns - eg: if it is late at night and you are unsure of the identity of the person asking you to stop eg: if they are in an unmarked car, and not wearing uniform.

I wouldn't make a formal complaint, but I would write to the police station, asking for a copy of their policies re these matters.

We all seem confused about what you can and can't do, so it would be interesting to know the true facts.

Also, if the police officers didn't follow the rules, this will be highlighted by your letter, and they can be advised how to do things differently in future.

I think the OP is being VERY VERY unreasonable.

If the police ask you pull over, you pull over. They know their job, if you stop, they will stop a distance behind you, so nothing is going to run into your car anyway. If you stop and they don't think it is a reasonable place, they will tell you where to move the car to, and will follow you to that place.

The fact that you didn't stop when asked put you in the wrong, and their attitude to you was adjusted accordingly.

I am ASTOUNDED that your daughter was soooo distraught too. Can't you go out of sight then? FGS she is 6. If she saw you get into the police car, she could see the car didn't drive off. If she is so frightened of the world, how does she cope.

Put this down to experience, move on and get you dickhead dh to put legal plates on his car.

I've been thinking and there may be a reason whu she was so frightened that is entirely my fault.

At Easter we discovered that she had stolen a creme egg from the checkout at Morrisons. if she had asked for one we would have bought it.

We gave her a stern lecture about stealing and the consequences and the fact that had we been stopped it would have me getting into trouble for stealing as there are lots of people who use children for shoplifting.

Maybe we went over the top but the intention was to make her see that stealing is wrong.

I still think that a parent should not be expected to leave a child in a car for any length of time regardless of the sensitivity or not of that child.

I'm wondering if maybe they thought I had no licence, I do drive a bit cautiously especially in a car I'm not used to and I have witnessed a couple of accidents recently both of which dd also witnessed.

Island I feel sorry for you and it was obviously distressing, but you were definitely in the wrong and your little girl, while upset, was quite safe.

Will you be getting the numberplate changed now?

That may go some way to explaining why your dd was so upset. Though I don't agree that the reason is entirely your fault. Surely a six year old knows that you don't take things from a supermarket without paying! A three year old, maybe, but six!!! If my kids had done this at the age of 6, then I too would have given them a very stern warning and wouldnt have felt guilty afterwards!
The issue is still that this isnt a 'silly' number plate. It is a plate that does not comply with regulations, and those regulations are in place for the protection of everyone. And if you knowingly drive a car with a dodgy plate, you should accept the risk of being stopped. And failing to stop is a serious offence. If I were you, I would warn my dh of his stupidity, never use his car myself, and refuse to be driven in it or allow my child to be driven in it. Then he might see sense and get a proper plate.

I can see why you were upset, but you are forgetting that not all people that the police stop are nice, reasonable law-abiding citizens like you (dodgy numberplate aside!)

Have you never watched one of those Traffic Cop shows? So many people fail to stop, drive without a licence, drive under the influence, carry knives, drugs and weapons in the car and aren't afraid to use them, even when they have children in the car.

I think you should make a complaint. They shouldn't have treated you like that. I was also under the impression that you were within your rights not to stop if you didn't think it was safe, also if you doubted they were actually real police officers so I assume the same applies whatever your reseverations.

surely if you were within your rights not to stop if you "doubted that they were real police officers" every criminal would use that line. "I didn't stop your honour because I didn't think that they were real police officers." "and how, madam, do you explain the fact they were driving in a police car, with blue lights and sirens?" how many reports are there of bogus police officers prowling the roads pretending to be police in order to pull over unsuspecting car drivers? I can't remember ever hearing such reports, ever. so the whole "if you doubted they were real" line is just an excuse IMO.