To be deeply concerned about DD's friend, yet not know how to say something to her parents?

[eekamoose]

Am not a judgey type, I hope. And a fairly relaxed parent. BUT ... DD's 7 year old friend is delivered to school by her father on his bicycle. She has a little saddle on the crossbar and rests her hands on the handlebars, so in effect she sits infront of her dad on his bike. They ride on reasonably quiet London streets. But neither the Dad or the DD wear a cycle helmet. I see this scenario every day and it just seems plain wrong to me. I like and admire DD's friend's parents very much ... I want to say something, but how? This has kept me awake worrying at night and I've even thought about putting an anonymous note through their front door!

WWYD?

Belgo, I have also heared the same about car drivers and them staying closer when the cyclist is wearing a helmet.

I only have my own reference to this - which is OMG if they got closer if I wore a helmet I would be giving the car a backy

I found the bit about the more bikes there are on the roads the safer the roads becomes - it is a bit of a catch 22 in the uk though - cos until its safer we dont go out on our bikes and until we get out there and cycle its not going to get safer. Thats why in someways it is interesting to see more cyclists with the price increase on petrol.

A question for you all, how many of you have fallen from a bike with no other person involved? When was the last time you knew a friend over 18 that fell of a bike on their own with no one else involved?

You said it yourself in the op... reasonably quiet London streets.
Let them get on with it.
Busy streets, mad traffic, different story.

I never once put a cycle helmet on in my life, cycled a lot. And now don't have them for my DSs... but then, we live in a quiet area where cars are respectful of cyclists, and the set up here is safe. Having said that, didn't in SW London either. Again, quiet.

Also, interestingly, my friend from Holland had both boys on her bike, one infront, one behind, and also never used helmets. Probably due to the fact that if a child or adult wore a cycle helmet in Holland you'd have the piss taken out of you sooooo badly, you'd never get on a bike again!

It isn't the law to wear a helmet
they do give car drivers a false sense of cyclist's safety and have been shown to lead to more accidents - a car driver seeing a cyclist with no helmet will give them a LOT more room on the road and really behave quite cautiously around them, whereas we have probably all experienced the lack of care that can be given to cyclists on the road while wearing helmets

my family do choose to wear helmets but there is a strong argument for it being safer not to

I think you have to butt out - it's not going to be that they are unaware of the risks of riding like this - they have chosen to make the decision. I am sure there are things they could point out about your lifestyle that they may find an unacceptable risk for their children. We're all different.

oh and ivy my dp fell off his bike last week with no other cars or people about
but he is a twit who was trying to get used to those flash pedals where you basically bolt yourself on

I know of two bike accidents in the last year.

One family of three - the father cyling, one child sat on the seat on the front, and the other child sat on the seat in the back (very common to see that in Belgium) - hit by car. Nasty injuries including concussion, but fortunately nothing long lasting. I don't know if they were wearing helmets, but I have never seen them wearing helmets, so I suspect not.

Second accident - a friend who's an amateur racing cyclist. He hit a stone and fell off, at high speed, mild concussion. Wearing helmet, which undoubtably saved him from more severe injuries.

I just know that when my child came off his bike on grass, his face was a mess but his head was fine as the helmet had done its job. In my house, no helmet, no bike.

Ohh - so pedals were involved bet he was glad no one was around

HAve to sat that I think getting lights is much much more important than a helmet. When I see kids at night cycling with no lights it makes me so mad with their parents.

yes, his new poncy bike that we had a big row about him spending the money on
been on it approx 45 secs and fell right over sideways
knackered a vital part and hasn't been able to ride it since

In holland half the children are transported on the front and rear of parent's bikes, without helmets. It has never been a problem.
A helmet imo is only good for a child learning to ride a bike - as that is when he/she is most likely to fall of.
It is those low level falls where some head protection may be needed.
Most people, once competist cyclists don't just fall off their bikes for no reason. They tend to fall off when hit by a car. And sadly I feel that when hit by a car at 30mph a little round thing made of polystyrene and plastic is not going to do much.
I have also noticed round here when walking to school that cars slow and take greater care around those with no helmets.

I am also 100% in agreement with ivykate that if more people went cycling, proper lanes would be built and we would all be safer.
(but then perhaps I am merely yearning for my native Holland

By the way, both dc wear a helmet when cycling. (because they could still wobble or spontaneously fall over)
But I do not intend to wear one. I feel I can hear and see dangers better without a somewhat useless plastic dome on my head.

I know it is not the law to wear a helmet but am surprised that there is so much evidence saying that they are not making cycling safer! Also thought children?s seats on the crossbar were illegal in the UK. In fact, I am sure when we bought a seat to go on my bike, we were told to have a rear seat as the crossbar was no longer allowed.

I think I will go away and do some more research on this. We cycle a lot and insist on all of us wearing hats. My sister?s friend was killed by being knocked off a bike a couple of years ago - big hoo haa about him not wearing a helmet and that it could have saved his life.

Hmmm feeling really confused now! Another great thing about mumsnet - always good to have your ideas and opinions challenged enough to go away and rethink.

competist? competent!

I think that you have to accept that it is his choice. I find it odd to see families out cycling where the DCs wear helmets and the parents don't-I don't see how the parents can justify it. My DSs didn't want helmets so I had to get one for myself.

That seems a bit unclear-I had to wear one myself in order to insist that they wore one.

Ivykaty44 to answer your question:

"A question for you all, how many of you have fallen from a bike with no other person involved? When was the last time you knew a friend over 18 that fell of a bike on their own with no one else involved? "

My husband. Twice.
First: In Wales, offroading, down a steap hill, he went for it! With Ds1 on his bike attached to dh with a tailgator, and DS2 in the baby trailer that was attached to DS1s bike ..... Down the hill they went, amidst sheep poo and grass, when BOOM suddenly there was a gate. It was locked. DH fell of the bike and hurt his ... ermmm.. helmet, DS1 fell off the bike, DS1 woke up.

The second time, quiet SW london street, answering the phone, downhill, meeting traffic.....

SO: I conclude, He hills of Wales is far more dangerous for the cyclist than quiet London streets, unless you decide to answer the phone when cycling.

ON second thoughts, how you judge a situation is probably ALL to do with it....

I wouldn't say anything, it's their decision.

The study where the guy found that drivers give an unhelmeted cyclist a wider berth has a major flaw: it was unblinded.

He cycled the same route with and without helmets and used equipment to measure how close the cars got. However, he knew whether he had a helmet on or not and would have to be aware of the other traffic to cycle competently, so could have been influencing the result by getting away from cars faster when wearing no helmet, moving out or in fractionally etc. etc.

This is not a minor thing and IMHO reduces the value of his results.

BTW I have fallen off a bike with no traffic involved and broke my ankle. Know of two other people (who were sober and adult at the time of the accident) hospitalised after accidents where no other vehicle was involved.

Traffic accidents involving cyclists but no cars are hugely underreported. Therefore we don't have brilliant data to analyse the current situatuion.

What we can test is whether a cycle helmet will absorb impact thus theoretically reducing injuries. That they do.

I wear a helmet, and DS wears one in the cycle trailer.

FIL is a road safety expert with thirty years' experience in transport. He says wear one.

QS, I also came off a bike with no car or pedestrian involved -- busy london road, steepish hill, but no car involved. Hit a bump, lost control, came off, the crossbar hit my knee and shattered it into lots of little pieces. Not nice. Mercifully the oncoming traffic was held up at the lights, it could have been so much worse.

I also had a bike accident with no other vehicles involved (steep hill, sharp bend, patch of gravel). I had severe concussion, facial injuries and a broken wrist. Could have been spared the concussion with a helmet and my mother would have been saved the horrible conversation with the doctors not knowing how badly it would affect me.

Luckily I was fine (and didn't need the plastic surgery they mentioned either, thank heavens). But now that helmets are available I think anyone who doesn't insist their children wear them is downright irresponsible.

A 7yo boy arrives at our school in exactly the same way.

Frankly it doesn't bother me and it's never occurred to me to say anything.

Still puzzled how people fall off bikes if they are not being marginally silly on a bicycle, when noone else involved.

Seems to me one would only fall off their bike with no outside influence, if they are careening (sp?) down a hill, on the phone, going over potholes, or have dodgy brakes etc.... or are drunk(!)

Same argument in a car. If you just bump something whilst just driving along normally, or trying to park..... well, either slightly dim or should not be behind the wheel of a car imo!

Same skills. Judging the road. Judging speed. Spatial awareness. Judging whether it wise to take a phonecall etc....

bergentulip: as I said further down the thread: a friend fell off his bike having hit a stray stone.

As a child I had a nasty accident skidding on loose gravel.

There you have it, two causes that do not involve the cyclist being silly.

Gravel, bergentulip. Hadn't been down that hill before, didn't see it in time to stop. (Admittedly I probably was going down the hill too fast but I was 14, I was daft.)

The most you can do is say "Aren't you worried about head injuries?" but really it's their decision and not your business.

Btw, I haven't tried to blame anyone else, just pointing out a cycle helmet, had they existed in the dim and distant days of my childhood, would have saved a lot of bother.