AIBU to pull DS out of music classes?

[MeerkatEyes]

DS is 6. He started music ( tin whistle) classes at the end of Sept. There are 3 other boys in his class - two are 8, one is 6 or possibly 7.

DS is struggling a bit. He can’t get his fingers onto the whistle properly to cover the bottom holes. The other boys seem to be better than him.

We didn’t have class at Halloween so there was a 2 week break. We were away for a few days so he didn’t get to practice.

The teacher takes the boys into a small room and parents stay outside (but must stay on premises).

Last night DS left class really upset. I knew there was something wrong and he started crying as soon he got into car. He says that the teacher told him he might have to go to a different class if he doesn’t practice. Also at one point, he says, he played a squeaky note and the teacher said ‘are you deaf?’ to him loudly

I am furious. I don’t know whether to pull him out and ask for our money back. I think it’s unacceptable that she would say that to him without having discussed moving classes or being annoyed at the lack of practice to me.

Just to add - he doesn’t practice daily. We did 20 mins practice on Saturday and I lifted him early from after-school yesterday and he did another 20/25 mins practice.

Just to add, my initial reaction was to say that we’d practice every night and work on it together. However when my partner got home he mentioned quitting and finding another teacher, so that’s what DS now wants to do.

Just looking for views and advice really. Posting in AIBU for traffic! AIBU for pulling him out?

I wouldn't be continuing with a teacher who made my 6yo cry. The teacher doesn't sound very encouraging. The tin whistle is an interesting choice - does he want to play that specifically? He might get on better with a different instrument.

Well if he isn't practicing, then he won't be progressing. I have sympathy for the teacher having to try and teach a class where one child doesn't practice, what should she do? Hold everyone back for the sake of one child? Or tell him that he needs to practice or he will have to move to a lower class?

He originally wanted to play guitar as he wants to be a rock star. I persuaded him to start with the whistle because it’s easier (and much cheaper).

We’re in Ireland and tin whistle would be the ‘normal’ starter instrument.

The thing is though I’m not sure that there is a lower class as they only take children when they’re 6. DS turned 6 in June so he’s the youngest in the class.

I do have a bit of sympathy in her frustration at her lack of progress but surely she needed to talk to me directly then, rather than speaking to him in that way, especially in front of the other boys?

Makes total sense (like kids playing the recorder in English schools I guess!), just wondering if he might be more motivated to practise if it's an instrument he's keen on.

Maybe he's just a bit too young for formal classes - could you learn some notes/simple songs on YouTube and teach him? Then he'd have a feel for the basics and then could join a class when a bit older?

The teacher saying “are you deaf” isn’t ok.

however doing a group music class and not practicing means he will fall behind the others and he will notice this. The teacher will talk to him about this.

it’s part of the deal that you practice. If he doesn’t then yes the teacher might move him.

“Are you deaf?” is really not ok, I’d pull him out based on that alone. Obviously he’ll make more progress if he’s practicing daily, but he’s six years old - she should be addressing that issue with you, not him.

Tbh if he wants to master this instrument you must encourage him to practice daily. I complained bitterly about it as a child when my parents nagged me to practice but these days I am glad I did as my musical ability is something no one can take way from me. I don't play everyday now, life gets in the way but I can pick it up and play a piece or run some scales just to keep it fresh. If he is not happy with that teacher would you be able to look into private one-on-one lessons? My Mum wasn't impressed with the standard of group music lessons in my school so she got me a highly recommended teacher outside of school who only did one-to-one lessons. That's a better environment for properly mastering an instrument.

To be fair to the teacher, she shouldn't have had to talk to you about the need for practice. Two 20 minutes sessions in a week is massively inadequate, and if you don't encourage daily practice you're setting a child up to fail.

What the teacher said was not good, but as a musician, you need to practice daily. 20mins at his age will do, but otherwise its pointless. Even now, as an amateur musician, I play my scales and long tones daily, even if I have no time for anything else.

By all means find a teacher who is a better fit personality wise - but you have to commit to the practice!

He should really be learning an instrument he actually wants to play, otherwise it becomes a chore and is more likely to put him off music rather than encourage him (I say this as a parent of 3 who have all had music lessons at various points, on a variety of instruments).

Also agree with others in that a good teacher makes it fun to learn. One who makes a child cry and says "are you deaf?", is also going to put them off music, so I'd have no qualms about stopping these lessons and looking for something different that meets what your son wants.

If he really wants to try the guitar, some music shops do basic instrument hire for children, which might work for a short time while you decide if he does actually want to learn and is likely to practice?

Thanks all.

I know we don’t practice enough. He’s in after-school until 5:30 every day, DP and I both work full-time (and I have a 3 hour commute) and we also have a 4 year old. Both DC have extra-curricular sports as well, and DS has stacks of homework. So life is hectic and we tend to do a couple of practice sessions at the weekend rather than the recommended 10 mins per day.

I have spoken to the teacher who says that DS kept saying last night ‘this is easy’ (I believe her about this). She says she’d asked him if he wanted to continue with the other boys or take some classes on his own.

She says she didn’t ask him if he was deaf (which I don’t believe as I don’t think he’d have made it up).

I think he was being a pain in the ass and she snapped. Which is still unacceptable in my opinion given that she made a child cry (albeit a very human and understandable reaction).

I don’t know what to do now!

Honestly it doesn’t sound like you as a family have time for an instrument.

if you do want to go ahead with an instrument I’d suggest doing individual lessons (as he clearly won’t keep up with the progress a group makes£ and change teacher anyway because the relationship with this one isn’t working.

if he wants guitar then rent a guitar from a music shop - they come in various sizes.

It does sound like he needs to practice daily rather than a longer session at the weekend. It does sound that it might not be the right time for him to start an instrument given how busy you days are.

Will he be learning an instrument in school when he is a bit older?

Agree with all the comments about him finding his instrument. It might be more expensive, but better than wasting money on an instrument that he's not motivated at and might even put him off.
My DH is a pianist and to be honest we always just expected DD6 to play the piano - would have been easy since we have one in the house! She used to go there sometimes and do a few lessons with DH but was never particularly into it, and then one day told us she wanted to learn violin. She's been learning for a year now and is really flying. We're so glad we didn't push the piano and let her follow her own path.

My 8 year old just started trumpet. We also work FT and they’re generally in afterschool club till 5.30. He practises for around 15-20 mins when we get home. Difference is, he actually loves trumpet. Your DS wanted to play guitar so I’d be looking into that. We tried keyboard with DS prior to trumpet and he lost interest rapidly. You can’t force it.

That sounds way too serious.

I would take him out of the class and get him some instruments to play with. I would suggest a guitar, a ukulele and an ocarina. An ocarina is very hard to make a squeaky note with. A uke is very easy to pick up.

This ocarina kit is great. They just copy the patterns with their fingers. If he's has a poor experience, something like this may build his confidence up.
www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-OCARINA-Purple-4-hole-Book/dp/B003J8CR4W/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?crid=2Q0VH58BO2KNZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.DWQYn_vvGEmQQtqNJCdMheH_oXy2F2Tx_yWSDE-ufwTF2ROAtRm7SOTt2KkXL5QWAju8fsk-Hs9fcAy3Ht-cFwXKywqFfIfUAbtY3Omq7htNdRyRx7W29ww8etJzLyloGcYaf3D8Hk-zJrqlx5BqtFjzoxkBk7E5FRm9FuRt_PY.HdRYGSSnhk4w90uQkTB9L6UVLNcIQVXL_il4R-_EaPg&dib_tag=se&keywords=school+ocarina&qid=1794313854&sprefix=school+ocarina%2Caps%2C141&sr=8-8

Let him play. My kids all picked up instruments and taught themselves from around 13. Some then wanted lessons around age 16/17 to add some technique and polish.

Interesting views. I absolutely don’t want to put him off music. However with the guitar I’m worried that he’s just too young and won’t have the dexterity. If he can’t play the whistle (which is just like a recorder) I doubt he’d be able to manage a guitar).

I was however thinking of a VTech electric toy guitar thing for Christmas anyway which may be a suitable compromise.

I'm definitely no expert but guitar is one of the instruments offered around here to very young kids (4 onwards). My daughter had a trial class in it when she was 5 - she enjoyed it and was able to get the notes out OK (but ultimately chose violin instead).
As long as you find a teacher experienced in young kids it will be fine.

OP, my expert of music teaching for my daughter is that there are two schools of thought. One is focussed on progress, practice and being really good at something in the end. The other is playing g for enjoyment. We've tried both and my daughter prefers the latter. She swapped instruments and we now pay privately, and she has just joined a band. It is not my aspiration that she makes a living from her music or has grade 8 to bolster a university application, like many parents hope. I just want her to be happy and music is part of that.,

Lots of youngsters play guitar round our way. Group instruction sounds tricky. Better to have individual lessons and not have to keep up with the kid whose mum has him up at dawn practicing in the infants to ensure he gets a music scholarship somewhere as 18.

Could he try guitar lessons on the proviso that he needs to practice willingly (but not daily)? A teacher who makes it fun might get something out of him this experience hasn't. I think they sort of need to learn the link between effort and mastery themselves, but many musical parents with their eyes on grade 8 feel differently.

Sometimes you can rent an instrument and just sign up for a term.

I could not, I have decided, teach tap dancing and I think I will add group tin whistle classes to infants to that list. The teacher could have been more professional and much nicer but I can see patience being tested by this. Sorry for DS that he was upset. Extra curricular activities should be fun, in my opinion.

I think group lessons can be tricky for music due to the range of abilities. Maybe consider individual lessons (or are these too expensive)? Then it wouldn't matter so much if he doesn't practice and doesn't progress as fast as the others.

She shouldn't have said "are you deaf?" but it does sounds like he was being a bit of a pain.

Couldn't disagree more.

The child is 6 - did you miss that part? Music lessons should be fun - whatever the instrument. Poor kid - I would find a better group before they put him off even worse.

If your time is so constrained at age 6 that you need to pull him out of after school club to find time to practice it sounds way too pressured. Sack off this class and try again when he is old enough for guitar lessons locally and has a later bedtime.

You are creating a completely false dichotomy here! There is no incompatibility between 'focus, practice and being really good at something in the end' and 'playing for enjoyment'.
In fact there is generally a very high correlation between the two. Human beings like to progress at things and feel they're getting better. That creates enjoyment.
Perhaps some high pressured environments are not conducive to enjoyment, especially in certain children. But the idea that working hard means it's less fun is false and silly.

My daughter has worked really hard at her instrument this year. She practices most days. This Christmas she's going to be allowed to play Jingle Bells in the end of term concert with the 'big kids' because she's made so much progress. I'd like to see you watch the absolute joy on her face when she told me that her teacher had said that she could play it, and say that hard work doesn't even equal enjoyment and fun.

One of the issues is thinking that 2 x 25 minutes at the weekend is the same as 5 x 10 minutes in the week. The time is the same, but the difference in progress is remarkable. You can't do long sessions to make up for missed shorter sessions and expect the same results.

I think there's no real point in music lessons if you don't practice consistently and it probably isn't fair on the dc you share a lesson with if there's one student slowing the class because they aren't practicing.

I think the teacher should have spoken to you rather than your dc though.