Teacher carrying 9yo into school.

[ChitterChatter1987]

My eldest daughter (Year 5) is becoming really tricky to get into school some days, particularly Mondays.
She has a male teacher for the first time this year, who she seems to get on well with and speaks positively about.She had specifically asked to have him despite often generally being abit more fearful of males than females.He is popular with kids and parents and is fairly young and laid back, quite playful and enthusiastic in his approach.

A couple of times he has come out when we have had issues getting her in recently and has verbally managed to persuade DD to go in by giving an incentive etc which has worked well, but today despite him trying this and offering good solutions to her worries, she just would not go in, and went outside the office reception and sat down refusing to move.
He suggested out of earshot for me to go as maybe me being there was making her more reluctant, which i agree was probably true as maybe then she thinks she might be able to come home.

I walked off up the path and left him negotiating with her outside as he had advised, however then looked back and saw him fireman carrying her into the building.
Now I totally get it's a hard sitiation knowing how to get her in,and appreciate he has a class to teach, so can't stand outside negotiating with her for ages, and there is a possibility she was okay with him lifting her in and it was a fun game (although I would be surprised as she isn't really a tactile child with anyone other than me and sometimes her dad and sister) If someone had done that with my 5yo, unless she was kicking and screaming in upset, I probably wouldn't think much of it tbh, but with her being older on the cusp of puberty, him being male, and also her having ASD and not liking physical touch, it just feels like it might be quite humiliating for her and abit forceful and inappropriate, despite it being meant as a playful gesture to get her to go in.
We always try to teach her body autonomy, that nobody should touch her including hugs etc without her wanting them to, so i just worry that this is going against that, especially with him being an adult male.
She is quite a young 9.5, and fairly small for her age, so not sure he would have done it otherwise, but despite that she is still the age she is.

My plan is I will speak to her later and see if she was okay with it or not, and if not ask for a meeting with school, asking them to not do it again and discussing alternative methods to get her into school.

What are others thoughts on this practice? If anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any ideas of alternative ways to get her into school i would be grateful for your input!

That it is inappropriate physical contact with a pupil and I would say the same if it was a female member of staff.

Im with the teacher on this. Sounds like its you and you childs problem. He has a classroom full of children to teach.

Cant get the child into class without a disruption, take your child away from the class and stop disturbing them.

Sounds harsh but its time for the many to outweigh the needs of the few.

What is everyone suggesting when the child is 11, 13, 15 etc? Because it will get worse.

As another poster has said, it's just papering over the cracks. There needs to be a quiet room for the child to go in if they can't manage class. That will at least keep them in the habit of being in school.

I sort of agree with you, but basically because people like you will call him a nonce.
You're arguing for him to be advised not to go the extra mile to do his job well. It's so sad.

Im sure the teacher was just trying what he thought was best at that time.
But if your daughter was uncomfortable (obviously we dont know) then it could of made things worse.
A meeting is a good start, have they got ELSA You could ask for to support your child?
Knowing what I know now a genuine school avoidance rarely gets better on its own so having a school who are supportive and coming up with solutions along with early counselling/CBT can really help.

And to answer in slightly more detail @FriggadyDiggady

How innocuous actions can be misinterpreted

How even though you may mean no harm, the same may not apply to the next person (a lot of people who do go on to abuse children start with touch that is innocent and therefore makes it harder for the child to discern exactly when and why it becomes inappropriate.)

How children have the right to be treated with dignity and with respect

How this sort of action can quickly spiral and get out of control (if she did resist and start to struggle and ran off, resulting in a tragedy, or if he grimly tried to hold on to her and caused some damage without intent.)

I am a teacher myself. It is true we are put in very challenging situations. It doesn’t mean you can pick children up in such a way.

@Neverendingstory111 How is your DC going to manage in the world though if they don’t understand that life isn’t just something you can opt out of.

It’s not just anxiety with kids - over the past 50 years school has become a far more child centred place, yet so many kids are now school refusing. This is something more than anxiety. Most of the kids Ive seen in this scenario do find school hard, are neurodiverse but are also testing boundaries and embracing their power

Please could you specify why you think what he did was wrong without without crutch words like "inappropriate", "safeguarding" etc?

TBH you sound like you are pushing all your issues onto your DD.

Leave the teacher to deal with it how he sees fit. So he lifted her - so what. If she wasn't complaining about it then you have nothing to complain about - any fears you have are just that - your fears. Stop pushing them onto situations that don't need them.

The best thing you can do is drop your DD and leave right away instead of hovering around causing issues.

Because children have a right to an education

Because in this country we provide schools and an education and a child should be able to access that despite having a disability.

Because there is no longer reasonable specialist provision and integratjon is the preferred way but that still needs to provide an adequate access to education for a child with a disability.

Do you ask why schools have to have wheelchair ramps and doors of an accessible width? Why kids with visual impairments can have access to visual aids? Why extra staff are required to support physical disability?

Also I WAS talking about me as a parent dealing with it, I was explaining why forcibly pushing a child, as a parent, into a classroom and forcing them o take part in class would lead to consequences. However making adjustments to help with classroom transition, having trusted members of staff etc can result in a child who attends every day like my son and causes absolutely no issues for any staff while in school other than needing help to get into the classroom.

I'm asking how you as a parent would deal with all these realities? How would you deal with your child in that situation? Suffering because of lack of resources to allow them to access an education because they have a disability?

I don’t use that word. But you clearly do.

Lots of replies from those who don’t understand school refusal in autistic children.

Sadly his actions, whether they’re deemed acceptable or not (in my eyes absolutely not) may well mean that moving forward she struggles even more to go into school, having been forced (unless she was a happy participant in this!).

My son was manhandled into school once, refused harder than ever after that. Couldn’t even get him in the car.

Thanks, those are some really good points. I'd considered the issue that it breaks down boundaries, but hadn't thought of the other two. I agree that he needs advising.

How would you have handled the situation?

Feel free to substitute any of its synonyms if it makes it easier for you.

Take a look at this video, 'the film unauthorized trailer' https://share.google/mvWbhWOP8NTFkd1CY

When this comes out this week you all should watch this, especially the people who havent a clue and think its that easy to 'drag them in'.
As a family who have gone through this it is heartbreaking!

I have just read the guidelines issued by Dept. of Education on this and what the teacher did was fine (which I already knew but for all of those advising to alert the Head, Government, Police and local Facebook group).

OP acting all wide-eyed now and 'oh, I didn't realise that people would be so nasty and misunderstand me' fools noone. Unless, it's OP's first day on Mumsnet, which I doubt!

OP, the teacher has done nothing wrong. Why post the question on Mumsnet if you are planning to speak to your child about it later, anyway? No, I don't buy it and I know I am not alone.

This man sounds like an amazing teacher; the world needs more like him and fewer parents ready to cry abuse, sue and ruin people's lives.

This! Fifty years ago you weren’t given the choice. And if you refused, you’d probably have got a smack (or worse). But I really don’t think it happened - children had to fit in either life then, rather than life focusing on the children. Huge chunks of my weekends were screamingly boring, sitting quietly on some great aunt’s smelly sofa or trailing round a DIY shop with my Dad.

DD1 tried refusing to go to school once. She didn’t try again. We bundled her into the car in her pyjamas (she refused to get dressed too), and drove her to school. She was sobbing when we got there as it would have been humiliating for her to have gone to school in her pyjamas. We had her school clothes in the car with us - her choice was to go to school in her pyjamas or get changed quickly and go in her school clothes as normal. Not going wasn’t an option. She went in, and didn’t try it again. She was 7 or 8 at the time. I don’t think she’s been scarred by it.

Thanks for that polite answer and apologies for my rather curt one above. (I really don’t like the word ‘nonce.’)

How would I have handled the situation - it’s difficult, I’m not for a moment disputing that. A lot of it is prevention rather than cure so I suppose trying to anticipate problems (and transitions are a big one for many children with additional needs) reassurance and kindness.

The other point is that for many children with autism, a lot of behaviour is fuelled by anxiety and that anxiety is rooted in situations getting out of control. Unintentionally, the teacher fed into that as there is little more out of control than being forced out of your will into doing something!

I did my teacher training in the dark ages and even I know carrying a child like that for that reason is not ok professionally.

Physically picking up a 9 yr old girl and forcing her I to a classroom she's refusing to enter?

You can't see the problem there?

How old are you?

Schools have become a pressurised hellhole for children in the last 15-20 years.

There used to be a level of flexibility that doesn’t exist now. More children are school refusing because more are being traumatised by a thousand tiny cuts in a system that is failing them left right and centre.

Only those with little understanding of the issue would consider they were embracing their power.

Too many schools are hideous places for all involved, not just the children. SN children are the canaries in the coal mine. It’s not a surprise to anyone that numbers of SN are increasing.

I know exactly where it heads. Everyone elses fault. The child being home schooled and pretty much living a life without consequence.

Zero qualifications. Doing whatever they want but nothing they dont want. Talk of college and work when older but everyone except the parents just roll their eyes knowing.

I'm watching this exact story play out.

Ok but what do you want the school to do. A child is a wheelchair user, they build a ramp and ensure the building is wheelchair user friendly - solution found. Op’s child is equally entitled to an education but the solution is harder to find. The rest of the class waiting for the teacher are all entitled to an education.

He wouldn't be here full stop! Would you like me to spell that out for you! I dont think your actually understand!

So why didnt you run back and tell him politely you dont want her to get into the habit of being carried in