80 year old nurses.

[IveGotAnIdea]

I've recently taken early retirement from the NHS after 37 years because I realised that I had given it my all and was burned out and also because I thought it would give a younger person a chance to progress.
Over the years, I have worked with many nurses and AHPs who were in their late 60s and 70s, who had retired and returned to senior roles and quite frankly did bugger all, they would openly joke that they were there for the social side! Turning up with freshly baked goods each day and then wanting to chat about their many exotic holidays or grandchildren for an hour. They invariably proved to be a huge distraction while Rome burned all around. Their sick records were also so much worse than younger staff.
There are currently hundreds of young nurses struggling to get their first job or working as carers while desperately applying for every job going, others leaving to go abroad because of the lack of progression opportunities.
Am I being unreasonable to think that the NHS needs to stop encouraging clinical staff to stay way past their best before dates and maybe even introduce a mandatory cut off age.
If they miss the hospital environment there's always volunteering.

Your title says 80 year old nurses but your post says nurses in their 60s and 70s so which is it?

I think that the NHS needs to ensure that all it’s staff, whatever their age, are working to an acceptable standard, are properly qualified and up to date, and that the wards are adequately and competently staffed. That would be a start.

your actual complaints seem to be

they brought in baked goods.
too trivial to mention

older people are sick more.
yes, this is true.

they spent their time gossiping rather than working.
if so this is not ok, however should be addressed by their management.

I think it's illegal age discrimination to have a cut off age. I say this as someone with a family member still working in a physically difficult job at age 80 (SEN TA).

I have met a few of these working in back in their previous senior substantive post, fewer hours and doing the bare minimum. I left my previous job due to this. I had worked there for 10 years as I was constantly picking up the slack ‘because i’m younger and more
agile’.
As there was 4 members of staff in the team (all senior) who were previously great in their roles all couldn’t give a crap. Ranged from mid 60s-late 70s.

60s? My state pension age is 66 and 11 months. I can't afford to not work, albeit part time, in my 60s.

Sick record? At 65 I have been off sick twice in the last 15 years since I started my current job.

When not working I swim, jog, cycle, and hillwalk.
60s is not old for everyone.

Not doing their job properly or excessive sickness is a management issue not an age issue.

This is ageism @IveGotAnIdea . It’s not a good look. Try rewriting it and put black nurses and see how that works out for you.

The lack of forward financial planning for retirement (or inability to) will mean this becomes more prevalent. I’m a nurse and I looked after someone the other day who still works as a HCA on the ward (she’s 75.) She said she can’t afford to retire as she never paid into a pension (sahm.)
Talk about drop still in harness.

What age is our “best before “ date and if it’s after only 37 years of working, what are we going to live on before our pension is available? It would leave a 12 year gap for me.

Is this an actual fact backed by research with statistics or is it your opinion. (intentional ommision of the "?")

It's a fact that newly qualified nurses can't get jobs. The rest is just based on my own personal observations.
There was a news article last week celebrating an 80 year old nurse, and whilst she is obviously amazing it does make me feel sorry for younger staff who cannot progress in their role.

Just to clarify, when I said 60s I meant late 69s, beyond state retirement age.

This sounds like a management issue rather than an age one, although I can't see many 80 years olds being fit enough to be a competent nurse. It's up to the hiring staff and manager to ensure their staff are qualified and meet the physical demands of their job, regardless of age. No one should be sitting around chatting and eating biscuits when patients need caring for. Equally, sick leave is there for a reason and should be used when needed. However, if someone is sick more than they are at work, they should be referred to occupational health and, if necessary, medically retired. I don't see this as purely an age thing. Unfortunately, I've met loads of younger nurses who shouldn't be in the job at all.

Edited to say: I forgot to mention the value of knowledge and experience that some older nurses bring. That doesn't mean someone who is not physically capable should manage patients. But their experience and knowledge shouldn't be lost. We should do something like some Japanese employers, who hire retirees on one year contracts or reduced hours in advisory/mentoring positions, so their knowledge isn't lost.

@IveGotAnIdea lots of sweeping generalisations here. The difficulty for newly qualified nurses finding jobs is due to recruitment freezes not to older people blocking jobs. I also don’t think a member of staff’s character changes once they pass 60 from being good at their job to just idling. I worked for the NHS for 37 years and there are staff of all ages that do the bare minimum in more senior roles and NHS culture does not tackle this at all well. So that is what needs to change effectively dealing with poorly performing staff and those that abuse the very generous sick leave policy

I could write a post saying I wish some of my much younger collegues would get off their arses and do some work. I dont because they are not all like that .

The logical best before age is 67.

It's possible to retire before that if you have planned appropriately, or get another role doing something different.

I am a nurse in my 60 and still working. I am not sure why you see this as an issue, seeing as retirement age for state pension is 67, but likely to be older for younger colleagues who may well have to work until they are 70.

Changes in NHS pensions rules in recent years, have forced the older workforce out of the pension scheme they paid into all their careers into the 2015 scheme. If they don't retire and return at their NHS pension age, some risk losing out on pension payments they are due that are not back paid.

I bring a wealth of experience to my role and I am very competent with excellent appraisals

Any issues you have with the individuals you mention could be relevant at any age, being performance issues or sickness problems that need to be dealt with by their managers

Please don't dismiss those who are older and may need to work or feel they are contributing to the service, often in areas where they struggle to recruit or are not attracting younger staff. My current role would not be appropriate for newly qualified nurses or those without additional qualifications

You may be fortunate enough to be able to retire before your 60s or no longer want to nurse, but not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to retire before they can get their occupational or state pension

I think it is an issue paticularly when rhe job is very physically demanding
I used to be a mental health nurse i worked in both Dementia care and acute innpatient care both can be physically demanding
Yes some people will be physically fit into their 80s many wont.

Whoopee! Another ageist post on Mumsnet. 👏🏻

There is no mandatory retirement age in the UK any longer. However some jobs have a cut off due to health reasons. Therefore as long as people are able to do a job to the required standard, they can continue.

State retirement age is 66, 67, 68+ depending on your age

Most people prefer to retire if they are able & enjoy not working.

The late Queen was working into her 90s !

Why? If you're experienced and effective, why not carry on doing what you're trained for and do well?

Absolutely, and I'll wager you've seen it all, manage situations effectively and know exactly what to do.
Some people are fortunate indeed to retire before 67.

There’s masses of ageism in the NHS, it’s almost unnoticed. I was told I should be wanting a quiet life until retirement, not applying for higher banded positions- I have 8 more years to work before I could think about retirement!

I've been a nurse for 16 years and haven't met or heard of a nurse or HCA in their 80s.

I also don't recognise these mythical senior positions in the NHS that are apparently low stress/low accountability, for all the ire NHS managers get they have difficult roles trying to make failing systems keep working, and stress is high.

Older people do get sick, yes, especially older people who have done physically demanding jobs for decades.

I do know a nurse in his 70s, he works in a very active clinical role part time and does well.

That said, as the NHS pension age is tied to the National pension age we all best get used to 70 year old nurses - i'm 37 and that's probably when I'll end up retiring.

She was hardly on a factory producrion line or working shifts in a supermarket
She had everyrhing done for her and the turned up cut a ribbon or nod and smile with people at a function

Not exactly taxing.

Presumably these older nurses aren't talking to themselves for an hour while on duty, so that's 2 people wasting time.

I am old enough to remember what proper care on a hospital ward was like, and that was in a hospital that was a combination of NHS and Naval nurses. They actually bothered to go around the ward every hour at least and check on and talk to the patients. Another area of life that has gone downhill.

I can only speak of my own experiences where I live, of course. Too many experiences of family members in pain, pointlessly ringing that alarm bell and no-one appearing to help. Then going to find a nurse only to discover them all grouped together bidding on eBay.

None of this is the OP's fault, obviously and OP, I agree with you entirely! Most organisations cannot afford to employ staff who have time to stand around talking.

Edited to clarify: I don't think the age of the staff member matters but questioning why the NHS is employing staff who have time to stand around wasting time.

@IveGotAnIdea if you feel that anyone in your place of work just brings baked goods in and wants to chat, regardless of age, isn't there a process to report? Surely they're not doing their job?