Fall out with brother

[TownClown59]

bit of a mixed one here and I do know that I have been partly unreasonable but looking for some perspective…

out for a family walk today (me, DH, two DD’s, my brother and his kids and partner and our Mum and Dad). My nieces birthday is on Wednesday and I’d asked her what her plans were, she mentioned she wanted to have a meal with friends but nothing sorted yet. I jokingly shouted ahead to my brother “have you not booked anything for N’s birthday yet?!” (We are a close family who often tease and poke fun at each other) and he turned around with such venom (almost) shouting at me for speaking to her about it, I shouldn’t be discussing her birthday with her, it’s nothing to do with him and if she wants to arrange something that’s for her to do. I was completely taken aback by his reaction so again trying to keep it light was teasing him for being grumpy and he stalked right up to me quite aggressively/hostile and explained he had been organising stuff with her friends as a surprise and that I’d ruined it. This then resulted in some harsh words being exchanged back and forward, which I regret, but I got quite upset (I think just due to being completely taken aback by his reaction/anger) and he started laughing when I was getting tearful and said “you’re starting to upset my mum”.. and stormed off, our Mum has Alzheimer’s and she was visibly ok but this felt like a really low blow to make me feel like shit as well as making out I’d spoiled my nieces birthday.

A total spiral of events that I just didn’t envision. I have since apologised to everyone who was there and also messaged my brother to apologise for my part but also holding firm on the aggressive behaviour not being acceptable but was I wrong, did I start this WW3? I’ve felt really emotional about the whole thing as what started as a lovely family walk ended in literal tears!

Sounds like a storm in a teacup after a mildly tactless remark by you.

Your brother’s reaction seems slightly extreme. Whilst he may have been planning a surprise, you asking that question didn’t ruin it. He could have simply replied “no”.
i guess the only other issue is what you said to each back and forth afterwards.
So, in short, no you weren’t unreasonable. Maybe the slight teasing wound him up but that’s his issue. You’ve apologised for the part you feel you played…did he apologise in return?

All he had to say was ‘no, not yet’. Your DB is a di*khead.

I was completely taken aback by his reaction so again trying to keep it light was teasing him for being grumpy

AKA continuing to wind him up.

It does sound like a storm in a teacup but your recollection seems like you’re trying to play your part in it right down.

You weren't unreasonable, but at his aggressive response I might have just said "Woah there! Sorry!" and not continued to tease him.

I don't know if that would have been any better, but I don't like poking bears 😬

Hope he chills out a bit.

We are a close family who often tease and poke fun at each other - perhaps all the teasing and poking fun is just toxic.

What you actually did was openly and loudly criticise his parenting!

I would wonder if everyone in your family enjoys the ‘teasing and poking fun’ as much as you do.
Maybe some people find it unpleasant and slightly bullying?

Leave your DBs plans alone .
Or were you challenging him for some reason? Keep your beak out?
Not your party.

You said something unfunny and passive aggressive whatever way you look at it and you got called out on it. That's on you.

You then ramped up the drama to cover your embarrassment. Your poor mum having to witness all that unnecessary stress.

I think the enjoyment of teasing and poking fun in your family isn't as fun as you think.

He did, but he worded it “well I apologise for you thinking I was being aggressive”. Like my reaction was the problem and not his anger

He is sorry for you thinking he was as being aggressive?

That apology doesn’t even make sense!

Maybe. What I said/did is nothing that he wouldn’t have done though. Twenty minutes earlier he’d just been winding my husband up for declining a night out so he is up for a laugh just not at his expense

You pissed your brother off then you continued to take the piss
which is very obviously going to inflame the situation rather than easy it

I don’t completely disagree with this tbh. I maybe did feel slightly embarrassed for the teasing not landing how it usually would have although I do think he used my mum to heighten my emotions even more (and worked). A bit like what you’re doing here, to stick the knife in a little, she thankfully wasn’t distressed in any way.. but thank you for your perspective!

My family have this ‘teasing’ edge and from my perspective it’s quite an ugly trait that comes from being competitive for attention from parents and onlookers - who is the funniest (at the expense of others). I keep both my siblings at a slight arms length because of it and have at times just upped and left when it’s going on rather than bite. It’s an ugly family dynamic. On the outside we seem like a very close, confident and funny family. The inside is different - for me anyway.

the ‘my mum’ comment makes me think maybe there’s a similar dynamic in your family.

I don’t have any solutions - I put up and shut up and remove myself when I need to which isn’t the healthiest response! Maybe this has been your brothers way of coping until now?

I did poke the bear and have apologised for my part, though I still don’t think being intimidating/aggressive is ok. Which I did highlight in my message that I just won’t accept that kind of behaviour towards me especially when my intentions were genuinely meant to be playful

Stick the knife in 😂

Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

You were called out for being an arse, that's basically what happened. Just own it.

Did you miss the part where I apologised.. I think that would be classed as owning it. I can categorically say I don’t ever set out to intentionally hurt anybody, the same can’t be said for you who feels it necessary to to name call a stranger on the internet behind her whimsy mumsnet name 😂. Have a beautiful day, may your aura not be impacted by this negative interaction 🩷

It's really hard for us to tell as you have to be there to see the difference between banter and nasty comments to each other. I'd at least be questioning whether this family teasing stuff actually works for you all though.

😂🤣😂

Seeing the OP 'poke fun' at another user's name does show how she is used to teasing.

Personally I hate being teased, especially if it is something over which I'm already feeling sensitive. I can usually cope with it, but I can imagine snapping. His passive aggressive fake apology was not right, but I definitely think I'd be dialling down the teasing/playful pokes with him if that's his potential reaction.

Not entirely sure that’s a fair comment r.e. The other user.. considering she called me a arse 😂.

Definitely happy to consider how I interact with him going forward, totally fair.

Siblings seem to be able to wind each other up more than anyone else, even when older. And they seem to feel able to say whatever they feel like at any given time. My younger brother and I get along really well but he is one of the people in the world that can just make me see red for the smallest thing and vice versa. We are usually still friends after bickering so I expect you will he too.

I do treat my brother with a bit more care now we are older though...bite my tongue sometimes, although saying exactly what you think at all times is a hard tradition to break.

It’s hard to judge this as an outsider op.

Does your brother have form for being this reactive and aggressive normally?

I think he was very much in the wrong to react with such immediate venom to quite a benign remark on your part, in fact it could be argued you were showing very normal interest in your niece and asking a fairly standard question, but he obviously took it as a criticism of his parenting, and that’s a touchy subject for some.

I doubt it was because you ruined a surprise party. People’s reactions to arguments are almost invariably more about them than about you.

If there was any surprise to be ruined, he did that by answering in an overly agressive manner instead of just replying with a mild quip.

I suspect he has recently been criticised by his wife or daughter for not being involved enough in family matters or something like that and he was feeling guilty? Or there had been some previous dispute about the party such as the cost or timing of it? Is that possible?

Or it could be that teasing between siblings is one thing but he didn’t like you involving his dd in it and he wanted to draw a clear line there?

Or as others have said, this wasn’t about the party, and you had simply teased him one time too many on Sunday?

The laughing at you getting tearful sounds horrible though and a bit bullying.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it though, your brother was absolutely wrong to be so openly agressive and hostile, especially on a family walk, and especially in front of dc. If he had a problem with your teasing, he should have taken you aside privately and addressed it calmly.

I have a somewhat bullying brother so I understand your shock when you discover that what you think is a safe relationship, really isn’t.

Quite honestly the way you responded to that other poster was not good either, so maybe it's more about how you are coming across to others compared to how you see yourself.

You say teasing, some say banter, others say bullying. Maybe he had enough of you that day but you went on and on and on and wouldn't stop, because "fun teasing". As other pp say, maybe it's time to dial it right back and change the dynamics.