To ask you vet men for misogyny when dating?

[HonestTealPoster]

I’ve been thinking a lot recently about how misogyny in men isn’t always immediately obvious, particularly when you’re first getting to know someone.

Obviously, there are the blatant red flags but I’m talking about the more subtle signs. The comments, attitudes and beliefs that might initially seem harmless or be passed off as jokes but actually reveal quite a lot about how a man views women. I’m specifically talking about men who initially present as respectful, decent and even progressive, but whose attitudes towards women become apparent over time.

What questions do you ask, conversations do you have or behaviours do you look out for to establish whether a man holds misogynistic views? Have you ever dated someone who seemed perfectly lovely initially, only to discover attitudes towards women that really shocked you? Looking back, were there early signs you missed?

I’m not talking about interrogating someone on a first date but being more discerning about who we allow into our lives.

Would genuinely appreciate hearing your experiences, particularly from those who’ve become much better at spotting these things with age.

You need to be able to relax and have good conversations with them. Basically friendship more important than lust (lust gets you hooked then fizzles). These things will naturally come up.

Also some men might not realise their attitudes and see the light, especially older generation.

An easy one is to say did you see the news this morning… yuck! And you’ll see a view!

Have proper conversations. Talk about misogyny and feminism, both in terms of abstract concepts and real-world examples. Talk about current affairs. Ask them what they think and actually listen.

It's not really any different to finding out anything else you need to know, whether that's where they want to live in 10 years' time or whether they want kids. You just talk to them about it.

You should be vetting them for racism and homophobia too FYI.

Well as long as somw women get any attention at all that is all that seems to matter, do you honestly think when men show themselves they take any notice??

How many terrible men in the public eye have smiling supportive women right behind them, how many useless men get new women to breed with them and of course the ex female partner doesn't understand the poor hard done by man

When I was in the early stages of dating exDH there was an odd incident which seemed quite minor at the time. I had already eaten and left him half the ravioli and sauce to cook for himself. He didn’t drain the ravioli properly before adding the sauce so it was a bit of a watery mess. He seemed disproportionately annoyed at himself about it and went for a walk to calm down. At no point did he express any anger towards me but much later I realised he had been annoyed that I hadn’t done the cooking for him. He kept a lid on things for a long time.

Through a combination of strategic incompetence, “sore neck” and failure to take back tasks after the end of my maternity leave I ended up with the full burden of housework.

The shouting and temper only really unveiled itself when I was pregnant with my 2nd.

Some men can keep things under control for a long time. Even with hindsight I can’t think of anything other than the ravioli incident that could have indicated how things would end up

I think scanning their personalities and looking for signs on a first night is a bit of a red flag too.
Try to relax. Don’t trust anyone completely and keep it casual until you know them better.

Jesus OP, you sound like hard work. As my lovely Nan used to say "If you go looking for pennies, you'll find some". Someone (even a man) can be in a shit mood and take it out on someone else without it being his whole personality. Us ladies have practically made a living out of it! We expect our partners to make allowances for our moods and hormones and off days. Why can't you do the same for men?

I mean some of them ‘out themselves’ on their dating profiles if you know what to look for. Honestly, it seems so difficult just to meet a decent person.

It might be easier than you think OP. If they express themselves like this poster does then you need to run for the hills.

Yes, I would, but not consciously. It's eye opening what some posters describe on MH asking 'AIBU to be upset by...' when it comes to relationships.

You first OP.

If you're asking us to vet them, how do you do it?

I'm sure everyone would appreciate your hints and tips.

Looking at his friends can tell you quite a lot. You can tell a lot about a man from the company he keeps. Also his relationship with his mother and sisters if he has any. If he treats them well he’s likely to treat you well.

I haven't said anything that isn't true. Ever heard "happy wife happy life"? I call out stuff if I see it, but you can't argue that we don't expect the men in our lives to put up with our moods. That's ignoring reality.

Just be friends with them and their views will come out. I actually dated a huge red pill misogynist. He unveiled himself slowly but the first sign were the “jokes” he found funny. Which weren’t funny but just simply misogyny as a punchline. Also the people he was a fan of (I learned of Jordan Peterson through him), the topics he wanted to “debate” and the female artists he really did not like but it was nothing to do with their music.

But the jokes were the first sign.

Why does she need to? Why can’t she simply keep her bar high?

People reveal themselves gradually without inquisition and I think that it would be highly undesirable and a 'red flag' if anyone subjected me to an interview-style vetting! I think it pays to bear in mind you don't really know someone for quite a while and if they reveal an opinion that you find unpalatable in an unguarded moment, (be that on women, disability, race - whatever) that's more telling than be grilled on a topic, where they're more likely to come back with 'socially acceptable' response.

Don't be in too much of a rush or assume you know someone after a few dates.

I think this is an important one, as well as how he speaks about his ex partners: does he speak well of them, or are they all “crazy bitches”? Unfortunately I think too many women seem to see it as some sort of negative and a threat if a man they’re dating still has good things to say about other women he’s been in relationships with and so overlook badmouthing of ex partners, seeing it as some sort of reassurance rather than a misogynistic red flag.

Also personally - I never met a homophobic man who was not also sexist.

One more - how does he talk about women he is not trying to date / have sex with.

I'm often surprised how many men don't believe there's an actual gender gap. They might (at least publically) agree that women should have eqaulity, but they don't believe they don't. I think that comes up fairly easily, so might be a tester...

Personally I have never really noticed that men who treat their mother, or sisters (or daughters) well necessarily apply that to the women they date.

Ignore me - misread.

Well perhaps yes, but same difference really. I agree a lot of women hold that view too.

What's with all the threads about misogyny this week, there's a new one every day....are we still blaming women for it too?