To think that marketing is partly to blame for kids hitting milestones later?

[AmpleFish]

A friend and I were having a debate earlier today. She works in a primary school and like many teachers, has noticed more and more kids coming to school without a good level of development. I suggested that it may have something to do with how products are marketed these days.

For example, dummies - the NHS recommends getting rid of these between 6 and 12 months old. However pretty much ever brand sells a product for 18+ months, some even up to 36 months. Isn’t this signaling to parents that it’s ok to give your 3 year old a dummy when in reality they should’ve stopped years ago?

Nappies are another example. Most brands go up to 17+ kg, some 19 kg. This is the average weight of a 5+ year old! They’re not marketed as night products or even a more “mature” pull up type, but normal taped nappies you’d use for a much younger child during the daytime. Again, if the product is there then parents are going to continue to use them!

Obviously I’m talking about NT children here. I understand that some ND children will need these later than recommended, but there are separate product lines for this and many older children who need nappies for example receive them free from the NHS.

Just an idea that came from this conversation earlier and wanted to see what others thought.

It wasn't possible to buy nappies for older children in supermarkets forty years ago. You had to go to a specialist supplier.

It might be a part of it. I remember during the weaning days when my son was a baby, some people would argue that baby food is fine from 4 months because the baby rice etc says 4+ months.

My son is incontinent and the NHS doesn't provide anywhere near enough for him so it is largely left up to the parents in my experience.

I don't think it is the biggest reason - but I do think you are right that there is a cycle between culture + brands.

It generally starts with slight shifts in culture, more children needing nappies later

good brands then recognize a need that isn't being met (e.g. older nappies) and produce products to fill the gap

The products then normalize the shift in culture and push it further

etc.

I mean I think companies are happy to sell nappies for older children etc but the problem is parents’ on their phones and the marketing that is being fed to their parents’ through their phones; which is brain rot and causing people to lose focus on the things which actually matter in their real day to day lives. If you have a child / children, and a full time job; you really don’t have time for YouTube. Yet people will put YouTube above other things that are far more important- keeping fit, cooking properly, spending time doing things with their children. It’s dangerous to normalize screens as parents’ because children will think it’s an acceptable and normal lifestyle. I honestly worry about what life will be like when today’s children are adults and the general skill set they will/won’t have.

I think you might have a slight point. However, there are a lot of children who do have additional needs and it’s good that these products are easily available with minimal stigma associated with them.

Nappies for children with disabilities/developmental delay/incontinence in particular are important because:

• Not all children will have a diagnosis or have been seen by the continence team. There are often delays and this shouldn’t be a reason for children to feel humiliated by having repeated accidents or be a barrier for children to attend school/activities etc.
• Supplies offered by the NHS are often limited both in terms of quantity and type. If a child finds a pull up style more dignified at school then it’s a good thing that their parents can choose that for them (some continence services only offer taped options because they’re more effective). Or if the child needs more than the NHS provides (e.g. because they rip them off or have frequent small accidents) then again it’s a good thing that parents can provide them.
• Some children have more minor continence issues that wouldn’t necessarily meet NHS criteria but still require occasional use of nappies.
• If parents run out or forget to bring continence supplies it’s a good thing they can just pop to a supermarket or Boots/Superdrug. I’m all for making the lives of disabled people and their carers easier (I’ve definitely had to pop into a shop when I’ve been out or away for a few days because I’ve forgotten or run out of something crucial!)
• Things like taped nappies rather than ‘pull up pants’ or night nappies are important because the pull up style is less effective (and slightly older children often aren’t dry overnight), and also don’t fit children who are bigger/smaller than average. When my 2 year old was still in nappies she needed a size up but with taped sides because she’s tall but also skinny so pull-ups didn’t fit her shape and leaked.

Needing 2 working parents is a big factor I think.

I dont think the products themselves are causing the delay. Its simply a time issue. Kids are expensive and so both parents have to work longer hours just to keep a float. Something has to give. Potty/toilet training takes effort and time, teaching kids table manners takes time. Teaching a child anything takes time. When you are exhausted from work and only see your kids a few hours a day, you lean on convenience. These products fill that gap. People call parents out as lazy but that is unfair. They simply have no time.

I don’t think so.

i think it’s a combination of parents working more to meet higher cost of living, and screen use (not just in children - parents staring at phones instead of interacting with kids).

if anything the examples you have given could be the result, not the cause of any delays.

No, if no SEN, I think it's just less time spent parenting for whatever reason.

I raised ds on my own, and worked full time. I had zero experience of babies. No support from dm, other family etc, but a lovely childminder with long experience who was a massive help. I bought a childcare book and read that, cover to cover. It told me what I was aiming at and the timescales. It was my "bible" until ds started school.

Ds was out of nappies by his third birthday. Able to dress himself by his fourth. Able to count to 10 and write his 3 letter name when he started school at 4y1m.

But I had the advantage that ds is an only child so he had all my attention. I was a lone mum, his dad had bailed, so ds got all my time. We co-slept so got enough sleep. We lived in a little domestic bubble, just the two of us, until he went to school. I was lucky to be able to do that and ds was healthy, secure and quite confident as a result.

I juat think neurotic parents who leave parenting decisions to other things or people so they don't have ro put real thought into it

I’m not sure about this, it’s not like the children are just left alone at home all day.

The very vast majority of children with two working parents will be attending a formal childcare setting. In my experience these are quite focused on the children’s development - and being in a group encourages the children to do things like potty training and so on.

What is the ‘good level of development’ these children are missing compared to previously, that they are noticing?

There’s loads of stuff sold that isn’t good for kids or babies. It’s our job as parents to recognise this as avoid them or at least moderate them. Baby nests, cot bumpers, squash fruit drinks, baby food pouches, kinder eggs…

When my teens were toddlers, preschool marketing (for 15hrs at 3yo) was clear that they needed to be able to use the toilet. No nappy changing. It was an incentive to get it done.
In reality, they did work with parents where the child needed it. But does chuldren were often showing other signs of neurodiversity by then, even if no official diagnosis.

That marketing has gone now, not just for preschool, in the name of inclusion.

I wouldn’t even say “good”, just ‘average’.

Out of nappies by 3rd birthday, able to use knife and fork by 4, dress themselves by 4, be able to listen to a story without wandering off by 2/3, focus on simple tasks for a few minutes by 3. An occasional use of ‘please” and “thank you” would be good too.

Schools don’t want little robots arriving at 4, but even just average parenting seems to be getting rarer and rarer.

Being out of nappies by the time they start school. Being able to use the toilet by themselves. Being able to dress themselves after PE, and put on their own coats. Being able to use a knife and fork.

I sort of agree with you BUT if you rewrote it and said if you’ve got a job and children you don’t have time to watch Midsummer Murders that sounds insane. And for many younger mums (in their 20s now) YouTube has fully replaced any tv.

I actually think the number of kids with SEND is just getting far bigger and we haven’t faced the situation as a population.

I think this because every single milestone was a struggle (and still is) with my eldest. She’s now 9 and at 8 was diagnosed with autism. She’s also dyspraxic.

My youngest was easy to help to reach normal goals. I felt like I was doing everything wrong until I had her. It is EASY being her parent.People shouldn’t really judge until they know how hard a parent is working with a child just to achieve less than ideal milestone development

Exactly and the reason the gov has always funded childcare for families in poverty is that outcomes in school better if these kids have been supported outside the home

It’s concerning, @SparkleHorse82 , that you’ve interpreted my post as judging parents with SEN children.

Every parent with more than one child knows that they can be chalk and cheese in terms of development and time needed.

But with something as basic as toilet training having to be taught quite regularly in schools this is more than SEN.

As teachers we can’t look at everything through the lens of SEN, sometimes it really is just lazy parenting.

Much of it is down to sheer fucking laziness. Additional needs aside obviously, but so many parents cannot be arsed with parenting - dummy shuts them up, score! Can't get them toilet trained because they peed on the sofa twice and who CBA with that? If children were still in terry towelling nappies they would be trained by 3, because who wants to wash nappies?

I both agree and disagree with you. My sister in law uses size 5 nappies with her 2 year old. My little one never went beyond a size 3. Age guides aren’t necessarily always correct. Clothing wise my youngest is skinny but tall so wears clothing 3 years older than he actually is with adjustable waists.

The average age of potty training has been increasing since disposable nappies came on the market. This is not related to mobile phones.

But... Firstly, I think mainstream schools are seeing more children with toileting issues because there are fewer specialist schools. Secondly, I think there is now more emphasis on making children with delayed toilet control comfortable and not embarassed. So, e.g. children are kept in nappies until they are dry at night rather than being beaten for wetting the bed and larger sizes of napppies are available in the supermarket making it easier for parents if their child needs them (it also means the NHS doesn't need to provide these supplies, in the same way people with Coeliacs no longer need to get NHS bread). This probably means more people feel comfortable saying 'my 3 year old is still in nappies' than they used to historically when most children were potty trained by 12 months.

I also disagree with the approach most people are now told to wait till they are ready then take a week off work to sort it and never put them back in nappies during the day again. I started 'early' but we would be nappy free at home during the day but they would wear pull ups when out and about or when at nursery until they were more confident. It took a few weeks to be nappy free but we were reducing nappy use from the beginning, there was no stress, and they were potty trained far earlier than any of their friends. I think if you leave it till a child is 3 you can miss the window and it becomes harder again.

Perhaps you’re right. But I guess early on in her life the teachers might have thought my DD’s development issues were lazy parenting. I had her out of nappies by 2.5 but she still had a lot of accidents in reception. I was told over and over again there was no sign of SEND.
i pushed v hard for a school referral when she was 8 and we were lucky though to go thought the nhs system quite quickly and she wad diagnosed with autism, dyspraxia and suspected adhd. I knew she had differences from the age of 8/9 weeks old, but everyone including HV and teachers all through KS1 said I was over thinking.

It was only when her gap with “ordinary” became more profound in Y4 that anyone listened.

My point is really: maybe that’s the case for huge number of reception age kids?

Do you have children OP? No one on this earth is buying expensive nappies and making their DC wear them just because it says a weight on the packet. The same with dummies, no parent is using a dummy because it says an age suitability.
I work with children and development is markedly decreasing. Lack of proper speech, lack of basic manners, lack of vocabulary, self regulation etc. The vast majority of parents I speak to immediately blame it on "I think he might be autistic/ADHD" and don't even consider strategies. A good amount of my parents have 1 SAHP so in theory they have time to teach all of the above, but screen time addiction for adults is having a massive impact on our children. I was at speech therapy last week with my DS and there were numerous posters on the wall stating that parental screen time in the presence of children is very detrimental to basic brain development. Babies are missing out on the serve and respond cues which hinders their desire to communicate from 12 weeks. There's even a name for this phenomenon now, which of course I've forgotten.