AIBU - the Green party has become a racist organisation?

[Twiglets1]

The Green Party of England and Wales has been declared a racist organisation by the Board of Deputies of British Jews.

The Jewish body, which is the largest in the UK, was responding to the "Zionism is racism" policy motion passed at the Green Party's conference earlier this month.

Board of Deputies president Phil Rosenberg said a vote passed by 118 votes to one to declare that the Greens had, "by adopting an antisemitic platform, become a racist party".

I agree with this assessment but AIBU?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckx2qyd17eqvo

Theoretically, to avoid disciplinary action or expulsion by the green party or sny other organisation that takes up similar policies, Jewish people would have to overtly denounce some of their beliefs, rituals and associations in order to avoid disciplinary action or expulsion? I think this is an awful prospect. Yes, Jews who no longer practise, belong to a synagogue and who denounce israel as a homeland would be fine - but what about other Jews? Where would it end? Oh, someone who is married to someone who has Jewish family in Israel - also facing consequences?

What?

Antizionism has the same discriminatory consequences as antisemitism, it's just a different name and a different focus of discrimination. Like the Nazis insisted their rhetoric was acceptable because they were not discriminating against Jews on the basis of their religion (Judenhass, the old and unacceptable belief) but on their race, which was therefore completely different and justifiable.

I have no idea what his has to do with my post.

Your mention of the separation between Jews and 'Zionism.'

I have no idea why you are conflating political beliefs and race? I honestly do not get the conflation of saying Judaism and Zionism are separate is Nazism?

The leadership popularity poll is encouraging. Not least because Burnham is the only leader viewed with any favourability!
However that aside, amongst the other leaders who are all viewed unfavourably, its good to see the huge difference between the moderates and extremists from both ends.
I see this as an encouraging sign that the public don't warm to racists, anti semites, grifters and loons from the right or left of the spectrum. Interesting to see Lowe more popular than Farage though. I'd have had them both tying with Polanski for man you'd least want to have anywhere near a position of power.

Not yet but there has been a legal challenge so that should give major institutions pause for thought at least until they know the outcome of that.

Key Details of the Legal Challenge (please excuse the use of AI)

Claimants and Support: The legal action is being brought by Jewish members and former members of the Green Party, with funding and backing from the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA).

• Legal Grounds: The claimants argue that the policy breaches the Equality Act 2010—specifically Section 101, which governs associations and political parties—by causing unlawful discrimination and harassment against Jewish and Zionist members.
• Relief Sought: The claimants are seeking an injunction from the High Court to overturn or scrap the conference policy rather than monetary compensation

It's just a different loophole to discriminate against Jewish people - besides the fact that dismantling ONLY the Jewish state, guaranteeing the death and exile of half the world's Jews, is a problematic belief in itself.

The Nazis argued that they didn't discriminate against the religion of Judaism, only against the 'Semitic people.' And we saw where tha ended up. The Greens argue that they don't discriminate against Jews, only the Jewish state and its inhabitants and anyone who supports its continued existence. And we are seeing where that ends up.

Do you see the comparison?

There is an area of land disputed by Israel and Palestine. Both have good historical cases to be allowed to occupy the land. It would benefit the citizens of both nations to be able to live in peace. 2 state solution is the only option and ought to be enforced by the UN. Anyone that argues either Israel or Palestine has a sole right to the territory is an ignorant shit stirrer.

Palestinians and Israelis have lived happily together in Israel for many years. It can be done if the politicians are willing.

Totally agree with you on first paragraph

Second bit about living happily together not really historically correct for either peoples but I understand your thinking and agree to the sentiment you express

Is it not the case that 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab, including 10% of MPs?

Sorry I read that as lived happily together before 1948 type statement

Misunderstood what you were saying, my bad

Yes Israel is definitely a good example of both peoples coexisting. Not perfect and a work in progress but still what should have been possible along if it wasn't for a lot of outside interference.

I disagree completely. I found it a very interesting read, and by the way I am Jewish though nine practicing. He certainly takes apart the myth of exile from Judea under the Romans and rightly points out the fact that most Jews outside Judea came from converts. What is anti-Semitism about that?

No I don’t see the comparison in the slightest. I also don’t think being Jewish and being Zionist is the same thing (even if many many people are both.)

But this what I mean by the should have defined what they mean.

I also don’t think your Nazi comparison is even accurate. I doubt they ever argued that discriminating on the basis of faith is bad but discriminating on race is just fine.

I am a bit worried about asking this as I think it may be offensive, but as a non Jew but someone who's children have Jewish ancestry, I hope no one is offended. if you don't believe Jews descended ethnically from a single place and you do not practice the religion then surely you aren't Jewish? My ex h was brought up atheist. He is Jewish according to the rules of Judaism ( Jewish mother) but was not brought up Jewish, did not go through any Jewish rituals etc. He also believes that Ashkenazi Jews are European yet he has recently started to identify as Jewish. I don't really understand what it is that makes him Jewish if he believes it is a religion rather than an ethnicity, and a religion he doesn't believe in religiously, culturally or ethnically. My DS did a DNA test that came back 1/4 Ashkenazi Jewish so is the book saying that they are just Polish but somehow a different group of Polish people?

He actually just basically says exile was ex saturated rather an totally didn't happen from what I remember. Basically it suits his narrative for it to be less of an incident than claimed. I don't believe he says it never happened at all because he k know there is some evidence of an event happening.

Done a quick copy and paste because nobody will understand my own interpretation of the argument for his book being deliberately iffy.

"Historians of Judaism, argue that claiming Jews are not a real people with historical and indigenous ties to the Levant erases thousands of years of continuous documentation, literature, religious tradition, and persecution."

"Sand heavily relies on the idea that modern Ashkenazi Jews descend primarily from the Khazars (a medieval Turkic people who converted to Judaism). Geneticists and historians have largely discredited the maximalist Khazar theory, and critics point out that this trope has historically been used to portray European Jews as alien intruders or impostors in Europe rather than an authentic group."

"Critics and organizations monitoring antisemitism argue that invalidating the collective existence and self-determination of the Jewish people is a form of political warfare against Israel, singling out the Jewish nation-state in a way that denies rights granted to other nationalities."

To be totally frank it really does not matter what anyone thinks of tbe books merit the question really is why was the book being sold at the Green conference? The only logical reason was it was there because it denies Jewish roots to Israel. Why is that relevant for anyone at a party conference in tbe UK? Why are the Greens so very obsessed with anything to do with Jewish identity? Even without the racist policy vote I would be seriously questioning the racist rhetoric going on behind selling books about Jewish identity at a political party conference!

As a Jew (sorry had to get that in there)

I do think your line of questioning is interesting. Obviously Jews that believe they are just European are wrong because DNA suggests they are more than that. However can someone be Jewish that denies the very things that make them Jewish? Yes they can. Should the claim to be Jewish for political or social reasons if they deny everything that makes them a Jew? Arguably not if you ask me. 'As a Jew' has become something rather toxic that I think some people need to drop. Basically if you don't stand with your own people against Jew hate them why should you make claim to Jewish identity. To me that doesn't make sense but they aren't go to listen because prefer to act like, well like zippy does.

I don't agree with your characterisation of his book. I have read it several times and my view is not based on other interpretations. I do find the current incarnation of the green party to be revolting and they shout be ashamed as they seem to have forgotten they're green roots.

I get the feeling that someone who writes a book called "The Invention of the Jewish People" has rather started with a conclusion and worked towards it.

Not that I think it would have troubled Hitler too much. People always seem to know who the Jews are when they need a scapegoat or a group of people to expel from their country.

Thanks for taking the time @Neverstopwondering for posting your thoughts and @Douglasmummy for raising such good, honest questions.

Yes indeed.

Thank you. This is what I think but obviously not my monkeys/ circus etc. My kids are only genetically Jewish as they are baptised and being raised Catholic. Exh, when we spoke about it said he was Jewish because his mother is Jewish but I said they are the rules of a religion he doesn't follow. Thank you for your response ( and yes I do suspect he is similar to Polanski in the ' I'm Jewish' for political reasons to refute anti semitism in the GP/ Corbynist Left).

It is a what came first the chicken or the egg situation with that title isn't it

Who the Jewish people are definitely seems to depend on the politics and rhetoric of the day. I mean what other group of people are suppose to apologise for being too white and apologise for not being totally white at the same time. Go back to Europe/go back to back to Israel can get shouted at the same person. Totally ridiculous is the racist line of thinking but they never see it. Once they need a scapegoat out comes the stupidity and the hate.