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PIP isn't fit for purpose

1000 replies

Ljcrow · 14/10/2026 09:01

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

OP posts:
walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:18

ThisZanyCoralShark · 14/10/2026 19:09

How is MRIs and CT scans and x rays and ultrasounds just going on what I tell the consultants? Do you think they give out new hips and knees for fun?

I think you have misunderstood my post. Please reread.

Kirbert2 · 14/10/2026 19:19

Constantrunner · 14/10/2026 19:14

No you don't need it from a specialist. That is not true

I was told that they wouldn't be very interested in evidence from a GP. Though not an issue with my son as he's so complex, he's never even seen a GP due to his medical issues.

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:19

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:10

It doesn't make any difference unless the specialist has been able to actually assess whether they can plan journeys and not just go on what the person has told them.

Of course it does. The persons’ condition as reported by the specialist will inform the assessor as to their ability to plan and follow a journey. You can’t just rock up and claim you can’t plan to get from A to B without saying why and presenting the evidence to back it up. And we’re talking about cognition and capacity here so in many cases the person themselves will be that evidence.

Or are you seriously suggesting that an assessor wouldn’t be able to make that determination from the claimant standing right in front of them, who for example has a clear and severe learning disability ? Because that’s how high the bar is set for this activity.

ChunkyMonkey36 · 14/10/2026 19:22

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:15

They did die suddenly. I am not bothered that they lied . It is no surprise. I am bothered that they were able to get away with it. Fraudulent claims increase the benefit bill and calls to reduce it and ultimately genuinely disabled people will suffer because of it.

You really don’t like these dead people.

LakieLady · 14/10/2026 19:27

keepingitclean · 14/10/2026 09:20

The biggest problem with PIP is too many people have an opinion on it while also knowing jack shit about it. People are vile and think you cannot possibly be disabled if you earn decent or have a comfortable life. People think you are a fraudster if you qualify based on their own idea of who should get PIP, rather than the actual criteria.

I think you are 100% correct when you say PIP is not fit for purpose but not for the reasons you give. It’s not fit for purpose based on the disabled persons experience, not your high horse opinion.

This is spot on.

I helped one of my in-laws get PIP, and another was positively scathing about it, and was convinced that they shouldn't have got it.

They had functional neurological disorder and couldn't fucking walk, and had frequent seizures.

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:28

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 18:58

So what would the evidence be beyond telling their GP or other Healthcare professional.

Edited

If you submit a claim for a stand alone mental health condition such as anxiety, depression or any combination of those treated solely by primary care (A GP) you won’t get very far. For a condition meaning you’re not mentally or cognitively capable of planning and following a journey you would need to have had input from second line, consultant led mental health or cognitive disability specialist teams. That’s how high the bar is set - and that goes for most stand alone mental health claims. Anti depressant meds and therapy via your GP doesn’t cut it.

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:31

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:19

Of course it does. The persons’ condition as reported by the specialist will inform the assessor as to their ability to plan and follow a journey. You can’t just rock up and claim you can’t plan to get from A to B without saying why and presenting the evidence to back it up. And we’re talking about cognition and capacity here so in many cases the person themselves will be that evidence.

Or are you seriously suggesting that an assessor wouldn’t be able to make that determination from the claimant standing right in front of them, who for example has a clear and severe learning disability ? Because that’s how high the bar is set for this activity.

I am not talking about cognition though or physical conditions. I am talking about conditions such as anxiety. I feel like I am going around in circles now with people misreading my posts.

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:33

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:28

If you submit a claim for a stand alone mental health condition such as anxiety, depression or any combination of those treated solely by primary care (A GP) you won’t get very far. For a condition meaning you’re not mentally or cognitively capable of planning and following a journey you would need to have had input from second line, consultant led mental health or cognitive disability specialist teams. That’s how high the bar is set - and that goes for most stand alone mental health claims. Anti depressant meds and therapy via your GP doesn’t cut it.

No you don't.

ChunkyMonkey36 · 14/10/2026 19:34

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:33

No you don't.

Yes, you do.

Have you ever applied for PIP?

Or do you just somehow know the in depth diagnoses and professionals involved with everyone you know who has claimed PIP?

Rootsinmydreamland · 14/10/2026 19:35

How lovely, another disabled benefit-bashing thread, haven't seen one of those on MN for at least five minutes! So glad the OP is here with her fresh new take on how all PIP claimants are lazy, lying cheating scum! While the, I am sure not completely made-up, accounts of multiple undeserving PIP claimants she absolutely does know have a very familiar ring, the, very convincing, protestations of ignorance about the plethora of this type of thread on MN is a novel touch!
I haven't read all the comments but, from my limited sampling, I can see we have already had all the greatest hits of this type of thread multiple times. Lots of posters claiming to know multiple people who claim for fictitious disabilities while spending their weekends mountain-climbing and limbo dancing or bragging about spending their PIP on tattoos and cigarettes. As always, I am amazed at how charmingly garrulous these blatant benefits cheats are. One would think that, if one were engaged in defrauding the government, one would be somewhat circumspect about broadcasting this fact to all and sundry. However, I am obviously mistaken since these, definitely not fictitious folk who these posters absolutely know, apparently cheerfully provide full details of their criminal activities, entirely unprompted, to these posters.
I have been severely physically disabled since birth, having been born without eyes and with multiple joint deformities. I require a considerable amount of support, specialist equipment and adaptive technology to function day today. I also work. The PIP I receive by no means covers the extra expenses attendant on my disability, much of which I have to cover myself. However, if PIP were means-tested and removed from me because I work then I would likely have to stop work as I would no longer be able to afford the considerable adjustments which allow me to get to work and do my job. I would then end up costing the sainted tax-payer, of whom I am currently one by the way, more money. I hope it will be a comfort to some of the posters on here, predictably frothing at the mouth at the lives of unimaginable tax-payer funded luxury all us disabled people apparently lead, to learn that, due to the considerable costs related to my disability, I am substantially worse off than someone else, without my disabilities, earning the same wage as me. Hope that makes you feel better.
For those suggesting all spending of PIP should be evidenced with receipts, that sounds great. I would love to spend extra hours a month on admin just to get the bare essentials I need to live, on top of working and caring for my family, sign me up! Since my monthly expenditure related to my disabilities vastly exceed my PIP, would I get extra money under your brilliant proposed new system?

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:35

ChunkyMonkey36 · 14/10/2026 19:34

Yes, you do.

Have you ever applied for PIP?

Or do you just somehow know the in depth diagnoses and professionals involved with everyone you know who has claimed PIP?

Yes in the past.

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:35

curliegirlie · 14/10/2026 19:03

I’m not sure any one gets PIP “for” high functioning autism. The form is set out on the basis of every day tasks etc and how well you’re able to carry them out, not diagnosis.

Agree. This is what most people don’t understand. It’s not the disability itself that’s the consideration - you don’t get awarded PIP just for having aa certain condition. It’s how that condition affects your ability to carry out the range of activities assessed. And those activities are specifically designed to broadly assess the likely extra cost you have because of that condition, based on the degree of difficulty you have in carrying them out.

ChunkyMonkey36 · 14/10/2026 19:36

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:35

Yes in the past.

Fraudulently?

Or just using one bit of paper your GP gave you?

Greenpeanutsnail · 14/10/2026 19:38

darkdaysareover · 14/10/2026 12:47

Medication is free for children and hobbies are part of a parents outgoings when they have DC. Perhaps if PIP wasnt’y awarded for neuro divergence or mental health then severely disabled people would receive more, which they deserve.

Are you aware how disabling neurodivergence and mental health conditions can be?

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:38

ChunkyMonkey36 · 14/10/2026 19:34

Yes, you do.

Have you ever applied for PIP?

Or do you just somehow know the in depth diagnoses and professionals involved with everyone you know who has claimed PIP?

I’ve decided to stop responding to this poster now. It’s pointless because they argue every point based on little if any actual knowledge of how the PIP assessment works.

KpkWa · 14/10/2026 19:39

Some people should at least change their minds reading this thread

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:40

ChunkyMonkey36 · 14/10/2026 19:36

Fraudulently?

Or just using one bit of paper your GP gave you?

Of course not!! I am certainly not claiming everyone does it fraudulently either.

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:43

Greenpeanutsnail · 14/10/2026 19:38

Are you aware how disabling neurodivergence and mental health conditions can be?

And are they aware that PIP isn’t payable for children until age 16 ? Before then it’s child DLA - completely different criteria and assessment, and child centred. Not to mention hugely difficult to claim unless you can evidence that your child’s disability requires more care or supervision than a similarly aged child without the disability. All children need care and supervision and it’s on the parent to provide evidence that their child’s needs are beyond the norm.

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:44

KpkWa · 14/10/2026 19:39

Some people should at least change their minds reading this thread

Not really, unfortunately. It’s always been my experience in this area that people will cling to their beliefs no matter how much evidence you present to the contrary.

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 19:47

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:33

No you don't.

Based on thirteen years of experience within the PIP and tribunals/appeals system l beg to differ.

ChunkyMonkey36 · 14/10/2026 19:48

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:40

Of course not!! I am certainly not claiming everyone does it fraudulently either.

Edited

I’m not really entirely sure what you’re claiming, to be honest.

Tri483 · 14/10/2026 19:50

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:33

No you don't.

You most certainly do. I have 4 in my house with autism and adhd. 3 with severe MH difficulties.2 tier 3, multiple hospitalisations, high level treatment, dynamic risk register red rating etc. Only 1 gets PIP. She qualifies for mobility. Her brother is also under tier 3 MH services, hospitalisations with a red dynamic risk register rating etc. Even though we have shed loads of evidence , he didn’t qualify at all. We only applied for standard PIP as even though very disabled by autism and severe mental illness his presentation wouldn’t qualify for mobility. The third doesn’t qualify for PIP at all so we’ve never applied- he’s on a high level of meds and therapy( not tier 3 but evidenced and evidence for impact on life etc).

The problem many with MH, autism and ADHD have is the diagnosis, support and treatment rates are dire as evidenced by the recent government review. No diagnosis, or treatment means very little evidence to qualify for PIP. Those waiting will be getting no support and treatment and thus often no PIP! So they’re left to get worse, which they do.

BugJuice · 14/10/2026 19:56

Greenpeanutsnail · 14/10/2026 19:38

Are you aware how disabling neurodivergence and mental health conditions can be?

Exactly this. My son is ‘neurodivergent’. His diagnosis is autism.
He is non verbal, doubly incontinent, has absolutely no danger awareness and doesn’t understand spoken language. How is that not disabling?

ThreadGuardDog · 14/10/2026 20:00

walrushurricane · 14/10/2026 19:31

I am not talking about cognition though or physical conditions. I am talking about conditions such as anxiety. I feel like I am going around in circles now with people misreading my posts.

Edited

Same goes. There is a legal threshold to meet specific to this activity - namely the robust evaluation of severe psychological distress, panic attacks, or breakdowns when leaving the house. There would have to be evidence that your symptoms meet this threshold, which requires more than a copy of your GP record. I’ve seen failed applications fail again at appeal tribunal for this activity where the thresholds are not met because the evidence doesn’t support it.

4DCheckmate · 14/10/2026 20:03

Some facts for you @Ljcrow :

a) Disability benefits in the UK are below the OECD average level, so we actually support our disabled population to a lesser extent that many countries which are poorer than the UK. PIP in general covers nowhere near the average cost to a household of having a member of the household significantly disabled enough to meet the PIP criteria - on average not even half of the additional cost.

b) The percentage of GDP spent on benefits for those of working age in the UK has remained remarkably static over the last 40+ years. The vast majority of the increase in welfare spending is, unsurprisingly, attributable to a sharp and ongoing rise in pensioner welfare. 55% of the welfare budget is now spent on the over 65s despite them being 13% of the UK population. This is due to:

1) pensioner welfare being uprated above earnings or inflation or other welfare payments for many years; and

2) demographic change with an increasing proportion of the population over the age of 65.

c) the PIP claimant group with the largest percentage rise over the last few years is the over 55s, largely due to the increase in the state pension age.

d) The rise in the number of claimants has been vastly overstated due to migration from DLA and many sets of data/ “statistics” presented in media articles with an agenda deliberately fail to mention this fact and look instead at the overall cost/ number of claimants between the two.

e) PIP is not means-tested deliberately. This is part of its design for three economically sound reasons:

1) means-testing it would fundamentally undermine its aim, which is to level the playing field a little between disabled people and others to allow them to participate fully in society. Those who have above average incomes <span class="italic">and</span> claim PIP are almost exclusively disabled people who are in work and would not be able to work if they did not receive it because it would become economically unviable for them to do so. This would mean that instead of receiving PIP <span class="italic">and</span> working and therefore paying tax and their own general living expenses from their earnings, without PIP they would become unemployed and pay no tax and claim a far larger amount in benefits to cover their full living costs, i.e. providing PIP to this group is results in lower overall welfare payments and higher taxes, as well as being a social good;

2) vanishingly few people who are wealthy claim PIP even if they do meet the criteria, largely because it would never occur to them (not being in need of any money) or because it is an arduous and deliberately humiliating process. Therefore, means-testing PIP would save a tiny percentage of the overall cost; and

3) most importantly, means-testing PIP would cost vastly more than it would have a hope of saving. Means-testing is <strong><span class="italic">expensive</span></strong> and for this, for the vast majority of public goods/ services, is usually counter-productive economically (as well as the fact that it creates economic distortions and undermines the “social contract”). The DWP and various economists have explored this option with forecasting. The estimate is that, once initial set-up costs of establishing the process and new software systems to collect and process the data (estimated at several <strong>£bn</strong>, being extremely conservative especially given successive Governments’ track record with IT projects), the ongoing annual costs of means-testing PIP is estimated to be in the region of £800m-£900m per year. This is because the Government would need to recruit and train approximately 12,000 new civil servants, pay employer taxes and generous public sector pensions for them, pensions administration, provide HR and IT functions, office space, insurance, cover legal costs for appeals, data collection and protection and compliance, etc. This means that means-testing would cost more than it saves and be completely counterproductive due to the low percentage of PIP claimants with significant incomes to begin with, the fact that means-testing would create perverse economic incentives and create another cliff-edge impacting behaviour (i.e. <span class="italic">discourage</span> disabled people from working), lower productivity and tax revenues, the saving (unless the means test level were to be set so low that the benefit would ONLY be available to the unemployed so fundamentally undermining the agenda to increase the proportion of people in work).

4) a means-test would put us enormously at odds with how other comparable countries provide support to disabled people, and, therefore, a sensible country would question why in the UK’s case it would make sense to do this and be economically beneficial when pretty much every other comparable country has concluded the opposite. It would be similar to us deciding to means-test NHS use and denying access to state-provided healthcare to people above £X income threshold. It’s quite clear that such an approach would have extremely negative overall impacts and cost the state more.

f) Restrictions on how PIP should be spent would be even more impracticable and expensive than means-testing it. This suggestion is, frankly, ludicrous. There are myriad health conditions which is why the assessment is based on evidenced impact not diagnosis. Various medical conditions impact people in such vastly different ways that it would be impossible to set a pre-determined list of allowable uses without preventing the money from actually achieving its purpose. The cost requiring each claimant to provide receipts and processing checks on these to validate each claimant’s type of expenditure would be astronomical (far, far exceeding the cost of means-testing), even if such a list of acceptable expenditure could be devised. To do it the other way proposed by the most draconian (i.e. provide dehumanising “vouchers”) would be stigmatising and again completely unworkable: how would the Government ensure that independent carers/ personal assistants/ self-employed taxi drivers/ local shops/ small businesses selling mobility aids etc all signed up to their scheme? Why would they accept vouchers rather than actual money, especially given the issues with small business cash flow? Are we really to believe that the DWP would process payments in exchange for the vouchers in a timely manner even if they did?! The only result would be the benefit not being able to be spent on much of what the disabled people actually need to use it for, or having to do so at vastly inflated prices due to the increased overheads and limited number of approved suppliers, meaning benefits had to be increased in amount very significantly.

g) Anybody who thinks that disability benefits are the most pressing issue facing the UK economy isn’t paying attention/ doesn’t understand economics. This certainly falls into the category of attempts to divert attention from genuine issues and provide a scapegoats. This is not to say that the system is perfect - it is not, as no system is. However, demonising claimants is unhelpful as is endless rhetoric about a tiny percentage of extreme fringe cases. With respect, you cannot tell “how disabled” someone is by looking at them, or from what they say to you (which often isn’t the full picture). Unless you’re a medical professional and have access to their medical records, you have no idea.

That said, it is clear that some areas of the country have disproportionately large percentages of the population claiming PIP. Reviews of the system/ of existing claims should focus on these areas in particular and establish the reasons why this is the case. Obviously ill health is correlated with poverty, but the discrepancy between claimant percentages between areas with more poverty and those which are more affluent and the discrepancy in health that correlates with income do not match, with the former vastly outstripping the latter. The reasons for this disproportionately high claimant count in concentrated areas should be established and local measures taken to address this: that isn’t a good argument for redesigning a system which is working well and not being abused in the majority of the country. The fact that data recently released shows this is a problem in specific areas also explains why there are often posters claiming they know multiple people abusing the system while others know none, so the answer to this is clearly for the DWP to focus on stamping out that location-specific abuse rather than overhauling the entire system at great expense (and with all of the associated and unnecessary economic costs of doing so).

That would, unfortunately, require a bit of data analysis and work though, so nobody will bother, I’m sure.

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