PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

Yeah like "ones a paper form"

Anyway I can see you trying to argue other moot points, with several other posters and I'm equally enjoying that

I am not arguing for visually impaired people not to get pip. I was correcting an inaccuracy.

If you can reliably (that is safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in reasonable time) stand and then moves unaided more than 50m then you won’t be eligible for the mobility component under the moving around criteria. Your ability to use a bus isn’t considered under that activity. It doesn’t mean some who can aren’t eligible though. (Yes, I’m aware there is a second activity for the mobility component, but I haven’t mentioned that in relation to pp because she mentions physical disabilities in her pp).

Yes precisely. I know someone who was reported by a bitter ex-friend. She had her benefits suspended and was investigated and now finally she has had her benefits reinstated as she was entitled, is disabled and was all along. But all that time she was cut off, she struggling to feed herself.

Hidden disabilities are a real thing. You won’t see these people unable to get out of bed, you’ll see them when they managed to and spent three hours getting dressed. They won’t tell you how hard it was or how many pain killers they had to take to make it out, and you won’t see them recovering for days after.

I know two mums from school both on PIP - both have salon fresh hair and pristine nail bar nails along with light Botox and fillers.

infuriates me - neither care about hiding the fact either.

No, I’m not. Some buy dogs and train them to be an assistance dog. You don’t have to receive an assistance dog via a charity in order for it to be an assistance dog for PIP.

I can only speak for our family of 2 FT working adults with a disabled child for whom we claim DLA.

DS has multiple neurodevelopmental issues including autism and has been in a specialist school since he was 6. I had no intention of claiming DLA for him because we are a high income household and are (I thought) capable of meeting the costs associated with DS' challenges.

I then attempted to get DS support via the NHS and have had to fight for every ounce of the meagre pediatric, OT, SALT and psychological support that DS needs, but which is never offered without a fight. Ultimately, I have spent over £30k on plugging gaps in shitty NHS provision that involves little more than kicking the can down the road until DS is another department's problem.

After that very unedifying experience, I started to claim DLA and I will not apologise for doing so. I would MUCH rather have decent NHS provision for children like DS, but if the state is going to opt out of that, the least it can do is pay a miniscule proportion of what decent disability support for children actually costs.

I am sure similar issues arise for those with physical disabilities, in terms of the need to upgrade from the cheapo/nonexistent NHS provision.

Yep. Have heard that one about nails and botox before. Next!

Nothing I have posted is moot.

Paper forms aren’t only for one of DLA and PIP. Both can have help.

Disability support worker here. I support people with various levels of need and the disability related costs are higher than you think. One single claimant suffering from a neurological birth defect. A full time wheelchair user, works part time with a LOT of support from various agencies. She lives alone. She’s doubly incontinent and needs help with most personal hygiene aspects.

Because she has an income she doesn’t qualify for any free help from the local authority so has to pay for a home help and a cleaner, someone to do the garden, she has to buy padding to cope with the incontinence and her energy bills are much higher because of the constant washing/tumble drying/showering etc, connected with her disability. She doesn’t drive and her disability doesn’t allow for her to use public transport so it’s either taxis or lifts when she can get them. I could go on. The list of extra costs is endless when you’re reliant on others.

Her disability related costs are much higher than even the enhanced rates of PIP can cover, and she’s by no means alone. So much judgement n this thread from so many who clearly haven't the first clue what it’s like to actually live as a disabled person.

Except it is not inaccurate.

I agree with this.

I never understand the polarisation and the idea it's 'wrong' to discuss these things - it's necessary to discuss these things if society is to function and we're all not going to be massively worse off, both those on and off benefits .

If people are claiming when they don't need it (and there's evidence this does happen), that's less money for people who DO need it, surely? There's not a limitless supply of cash. The people the fraudsters and those who don't need it are harming the most are other disabled people.

There are plenty of disabilities where PIP doesn't come anywhere close to the amount of money required to make a meaningful improvement in quality of life and where people need more and can't get it.

I want there to be a safety net, I don't want some safety nets to be gold plated at the expense of others not getting one at all.

They would have to give a name, and address, I suppose. That would be difficult I guess, as most of these 'cheats' are a figment of their imaginations.

I understand the criteria. It annoys me though that I use an nhs wheelchair or walker when outside and sticks for inside, can't use buses so have to use taxis or drive, and am not entitled to mobility pip. But someone who goes out jogging can get it if they say they are too anxious to go out alone.

The current criteria for pip is skewed towards neuro diversity and mental health issues and away from physical disabilities. You have to be extremely physically disabled to get pip on physical disability alone.

Going forward, I'd urge everyone to have a good think about how they'd cope if they suddenly suffered a disabling stroke or were involved in a freak accident and how that might affect their future plans and that of their family before they take to their keyboard or open their big fat gobs
Not one poster has hinted here that they believe someone who has suffered from a stroke or severe car accident shouldn't get pip. Not one. So why are you referring to these circumstances? That's not the people we think don't deserve benefits.

I think the point though is what if they are too anxious to go out? What if they’re not just “saying” it? How can you tell the difference? So are you going to say that 99% of people who are legitimately claiming should be told ‘no’ because of that 1% that are just saying they can’t do it? Also: in order to claim for anxiety you still need to provide evidence that your anxiety affects you in this way.

They are guide dogs. And, no food isn’t the only extra cost of being visually impaired. 🙄

I think one of the problems with PiP isn't that those claiming shouldn't be entitled, it's that not everyone is diagnosed with/able to apply for it who may need it. So it's creating more inequality in a way where millions of those who have neurodiversity for example who've just cracked on in life and sacrificed some of their wellbeing to work full time but never pushed for/been helped to get assessed and apply. Now that the economy is so bad and there are so few jobs available, it's sort of like the new haves and have nots.
If for example you're from a poorer area with fee jobs, two young people living there may both be neurodiverse and one receives PIP and their parents/teachers fought for a diagnosis (which lets be honest is not easy if you're not already well off enough to afford private), the other never got diagnosed and doesn't receive it. If you reach adulthood without being diagnosed you probably never will be. This means that those born into wealthier families (who can afford to pursue private diagnosis) are more likely to apply for and be in receipt of PIP than those who may have the same issues or worse but haven't been able to be diagnosed (often due to wait lists).

'Salon fresh hair'. It might not occur to you that some people would have to visit a salon to get their hair done, as they do not have the dexterity to be able to lift their hands above their head, in order to wash it, or they could have arthritis, or spinal problems, I could go on, but no doubt it would be a waste of my time.

Are you not allowed to be disabled and get your hair cut now?

Erm, ok, and?

What is your point here?

Well said!

Are you really that ignorant to think it doesn’t happen ? Seriously ?? It’s actually so unbelievable none of you can admit that some people exaggerate their conditions to get more money.
Some of you will be in for a shock when it’s reformed because of the fraudsters

Not according to ignorant people!

Oh my goodness. I'll bite. Currently going through the PIP process and it is gruelling. It is so, so difficult! Yes, there will always be scammers but DWP's own fraud data sits at just around 1.1% - 1.3% of total PIP expenditure. The whole point of PIP is that it is to level the playing field for disabled people. It is not means tested as I'm sure has been mentioned countless times on this thread. Hidden disability is real, we're not going anywhere! Do you think an extra £300 odd a month is that much of a benefit. Seriously.