To believe the team “Karen” isn’t misogynistic

[SummerAsh]

To start with… I don’t like the term. It can’t be pleasant if you are actually called Karen. And I don’t believe I’ve ever used it….

But I don’t see why it is misogynistic…. Unless someone says that all women are Karens. Some women are just insufferable, the same way some men are. Admitting this doesn’t make you misogynistic! And more than calling someone a Dick makes that person a misandrist.

Bandying the word “misogyny” around whenever anyone says anything that’s not completely complimentary about a woman just devalues the word, and makes it more difficult to call out real misogyny.

I think it's the equivalent of when people ( ie women) call a man a Nigel, isn't it? Could well be wrong here. Happy to be corrected

It’s used to put down assertive women, especially those who aren’t young and pretty.

Did you know that dick refers to penis not the man’s name Dick?

I massively judge anyone who uses this term. It's rude, lazy. stupid and demonstrates an utter lack of any kind of reasoned disagreement. I agree that it is misogynistic and used to shut down middle aged women who try to speak up for themselves or raise an issue.

Saying, 'Alright Karen - give it a rest' is a pathetic response to anyone. So is describing someone as 'acting like a Karen'.

I can't bear it.

Some decent arguments why it is actually misogynistic… I’m being persuaded.

"I ask because its normally used when an older woman is making a valid complaint about shitty service, that somebody else thinks that she should just put up with"

Before it became commonplace Wasn't the term used originally by black communities about "privileged" female customers who made unreasonable / unfounded or unreasonable complaints then would then ask to see a manager then the area manager and so on when it wasn't upheld?

Another example would be trying to weaponise the police about issues like having barbecues in parks etc..

I've heard young girls saying they didn't want to complain about something for fear of being called a Karen. It just plays into the culture of women being submissive and not feeling that they can call out bad behaviour.

I thinks it’s more that “male” undesirable traits don’t get stereotyped in the same way .
Where’s the name for that sector of men that get Thai brides?
or men that only have hobbies that are tribal?
or tje well documented man that can’t look after himself and clean the house as an adult?

It’s not about making a valid complaint though, it’s used when someone is making an invalid complaint, that’s the point. Someone who is entitled and rude, not someone making a genuine complaint. That’s the point, a Karen isn’t a strong opinionated person, it’s a rude and unpleasant person.

This. It's an awful term.

Well said.

Ok Felicia.

No it originally started when a white American woman named Karen something falsely accused a black man minding his own business of threatening her to the police to get him arrested and/or shot because she didn't think that a black man should be sat on a park bench. It had nothing to do with white women making unreasonable complaints, it is however now only used against middle aged white women who complain about anything especially if its a valid complaint that a man or younger woman cant be bothered dealing with

But why a 'Karen'? That's the point..
Anyone can make an invalid or unjustified complaint or be rude or unpleasant. Not just older women... ....its lazy, ageist and misogynistic shorthand ...

Says the person incapable of formulating an intelligent come back.

I think the fact that there isn't a widely used term "Keith" or similar shows the weakness of your argument.

It's intended to shut women's views down by implying that they are a. old b. out of touch c. privileged d.feel tribally entitled to impose their views

Where do you most frequently see those qualities combined?

It's not in middle-aged women, who are significantly economically disadvantaged in comparison to their male counterparts, and socialised to shut the fuck up, that's for sure.

It's the equivalent of 'uppity', which most of us would recognise as a slur.

Excellent chapter in ‘Hags’ on ‘Karen’.
I hate it. In its current usage may as well just be telling the outspoken middle aged woman to stfu as her opinion is worthless. God forbid we complain about anything.

I think 'bitch' would suit your needs.

Yes but using a name that’s common for women in their late 50s and 60s to describe a rude and unpleasant person tends to imply that that group is more likely to be rude and unpleasant than anyone else. There are rude and unpleasant people of both sexes and all ages.
We aren’t calling people a Dave or an Olivia.
Then it broadens out and when a woman in that age group makes a justified complaint or expresses an opinion it’s “shut up Karen”

"No it originally started when a white American woman named Karen something falsely accused a black man minding his own business of threatening her to the police to get him arrested and/or shot because she didn't think that a black man should be sat on a park bench."

No it definitely started in the black community referring and involved entitled behaviour then weaponising racial or financial privilege.

Here's what Google says about it.

• "The term gained traction on Black Twitter (2016–2017) to describe white women who weaponized racial privilege, often by calling police on Black people in non‑threatening situations
• Viral incidents such as “Barbecue Becky,” “Permit Patty,”
• The stereotype expanded to include entitlement toward service workers, “speaking to the manager,”

I hate the idea of using a name as an insult and will never use it based on that principle alone, so I don't really care if it's misogynistic or not, though it is interesting that they chose a woman's name, given that the behaviour it's supposed to be linked to can be exhibited by both sexes.

I’ve also heard my teenage daughters say this. About things they are perfectly entitled to speak up about. It’s a tool used (by women and men) to make women doubt their own agency.

And as others have said, it’s a fucking lazy insult.

This.

I've never actually seen it used for women ordinarily standing up for themselves - something I strongly support. I teach my daughter to be the opposite of quiet, subservient and unassuming; and I reject those traits myself.

The women I've actually heard being called Karens do need to be shut down though, as they're usually being invasive, horribly nasty, entitled, racist and often outright dangerous. Similar to the Kens of this world.

It was, but it’s not now. It’s used to dismiss or shut down women’s perfectly valid and reasonable points or complaints.