How is this boy not considered dangerous? I am shocked

[shooooes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5398n821rlko

14 year old boy stalked and stabbed a girl who refused to date him, however was deemed not dangerous by a judge and given a restraining order. What goes through these judge's minds? Unbelievable.

I've got the news on now and there is an item about a woman whose ex put a tracker on her car and because it was the first time the police said there was nothing they c= could do and that it needs to happen again! She's launched a campaign called "once is enough" . Sometimes it feels as if the only progress that has been made is that offenders now have technology to help them offend against women and girls.

Male judge, I am guessing?

My Dh is pretty amazing, an ally of women in the workplace etc… but even HE doesn’t get that women’s experience of the world is shaped by the fear of violent men, the constant subconscious vigilance, and microexpressions they are constantly screening for, and that cases like this just affirm what he might consider a ‘little bit of paranoia’. Possibly because, as a bloke, he would never behave threateningly so cannot appreciate that other men can. Does my head in, but I think middle class, often white, middle-aged men have bugger all clue about women’s safety.

I wonder what the sentencing would have looked like had he stabbed a boy? Bet it wouldn’t have been a restraining order…

I think the blades article consequences for teenagers are way behind what's actually going on in the streets. A couple of years ago, I was on jury for a knife attack carried out by two 17 year old boys, with massive machetes. They both had a string of "cautions" and other such ineffective measures throughout their teens. If they'd had proper consequences earlier, this attack might never have happened.

Brock Turner's insult of a sentence comes to mind.

He later called it "a blemish on an otherwise long and distinguished career". A blemish? FFS 🙄.

My neighbour had a restraining order, called the Police all day on the day they were murdered. He followed her home from the shops. We heard the screams, we phoned the police, they took their time, turned up when all three were dead, the victim, her Mother, the dog.
In the arson case, he should have been recalled to prison. I could link all day from Google.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-65831909
https://www.cps.gov.uk/mersey-cheshire/news/husband-jailed-life-murdering-his-estranged-wife-shop-where-she-worked

Does my head in, but I think middle class, often white, middle-aged men have bugger all clue about women’s safety.

This is true. I live in a fairly rural area and was recently walking along a path near a quiet road that also has a lay by in it. I could see a transit van parked in the lay by with a driver sitting in it. So I crossed and walked on the opposite side, even though it was all grass and no path rather than walk alongside the van

I know that none of the men in my life would think to have to do the same and it saddens me that I had to think that way. Chances are he was just a lovely innocent man making a phone call or something but it wasn't a risk I was prepared to take.

Years ago whilst I was at secondary school we had a talk given to the girls by the mother of Suzy Lamplugh and even now much of her safety advice sticks in my head.

Would the Unduly Lenient Sentencing appeal scheme apply in this case or is the offence not "serious" enough? Many of us here used that to apply pressure in the Fordingbridge case.

Society would rather women live in fear than hold men accountable for their acts of violence against women.

I'm old enough to remember when Peter Sutcliffe's reign of terror meant that women in Leeds and nearby localities lived in fear. A friend of mine turned down a work placement in Leeds due to not feeling safe to go there. Men at football matches used to chant "Ripper 13, police nil" and some would leap out in front of women in the street and yell "I'm the ripper".

Was that when the police tried a curfew for women, rather than men ?

Does anyone else feel like all hope is lost? With things like this and Sarah Everard and the multiple charges against police officers for crimes against women that came to light in the aftermath. It’s like civilisation is heading down a dark path. There was an article about a gang rape at a fraternity house in the US last week and sounded like the male students involved were very pleased with themselves and made jokes with eachother on a group chat.

After reading a thread last week about a lone woman driver coming under attack I am seriously considering keeping some kind of self defence in the car (but what?) and is also illegal to carry things like mace. I am going to get dash cams but those loud personal alarms I don’t think would be very effective. No actual defensive items that could be used to ward off an attacker are legal to carry/ use! I have two DD and think about them constantly.

Does anyone else think it should be legalised for women/ mid teenage girls and upward to carry a personal defence? The justice system is broken if it is failing to protect women/ girls, it is so depressing.

The thing that gets me about the judge's remarks is -

Sentencing remarks are meant to be public. They are not like earwigging on a private conversation.

EVEN IF there is a specific meaning to the word "dangerous" in law, the judge should rightly consider that his sentencing remarks will be consumed by a public that is not legally expert.

In a case like this, his remarks will surely be quoted/ clipped up and accessed by 14 yo girls. The victim, her classmates.

What they will understand by "he is not a danger to the public" is "girls' lives don't matter".

It doesn't matter what he meant. That is what will be heard.

I would say this damages public trust in the justice system because at the level of manifest content, it literally says he is not considered dangerous to a wider public.

A judge should be a sufficiently thoughtful and effective communicator to avoid that.

Women's trust in the justice system matters.

yes but sentencing guidelines for attempted murder are a bit higher than a restraining order.

yes women and girls were advised not to go out at night unless absolutely necessary and if they had to then to make sure they were accompained by a man they trust! (you couldn't make it up) and when he first killed a woman who was not working as a prostitute the media reported it as "The Ripper's first innocent victim" Sometimes I find it hard not to just despise men. I never used to but i have lived a long time now and been through so much stuff and seen and heard so much other stuff about the way women and girls are treated that it's hard not to despair at times

If he's not considered dangerous, then who the hell is???

Is there a petition or something? Surely we have a voice when we group together.

I dread to think what he’ll do to his next victim, it’s a terrifying situation where a judge pretty much lets someone off and says ‘do better next time’.
No wonder I have a very jaded opinion of men and especially men in positions of power ( that includes the police).

Shouldn't he be sectioned? Surely the stalking and then stabbing of a child multiple times in a frenzied attack is the embodiment of insanity. .

Being a violent abuser doesn't mean someone is mentally ill.

He is. But, no doubt, he’ll have an excuse. 🙄

Does anyone know who the judge is in this case? I don't know if complaining will make any difference, but me sitting at home seething definitely will not make a difference. The system has to change, women and girls are being completely failed.

The bottom line is that this govt doesn't give a flying f*ck about violence against women and girls, and any claim to the contrary is nothing but politically correct lip service.

They are a total waste of space.

It depends how you quantify mentally ill surely? He stabbed another child multiple times in broad daylight in a shop and it was only by the grace of god that she isn't dead. These are not the actions of someone sound of mind. Otherwise we'd be knee deep in murder victims because they refused to go on a date with someone, or they looked the wrong way at them. It does not come anywhere close to normal.

Edited to say that I'm suggesting this in the almost total absence of any other form of redress for the victim.