Women on Mumsnet

[BunnyInTheRavine]

I'm on maternity leave and have been using Mumsnet since the beginning of my leave.
I have been quite shocked at the way that women speak to one another on this platform. For context I'm 38 and was dragged up by older brother so throughout my life have often been quite blokey for want of a better word. In my 20's and 30's due to my work I have worked with people often quite a lot younger than me, and the best thing I have learnt from the younger women is non judgement and to raise each other up! It's been wonderful. I'm so thankful that my line of work enables me to be able to learn from younger generations ( I'm not suggesting they don't have faults, they can also be overtly judgemental, but when it comes to this one topic I find them great) their bringing up of women is truly fab!
So I guess it's
Yanbu- women on Mumsnet seem to appear quite harsh/ haven't learnt to raise each other up yet!
Aibu- women on Mumsnet feel they are in a safe space so say exactly how they feel no matter if it seems harsh or not.

How do you know?

Because HQ publish demographic data on posters, not least as their pitch for advertisers money. The percentage of men has increased dramatically since the early years.

Whilst the shangri-la you describe sounds great in the real world the 50% of the second sex class are regularly treated differently - and not in a good way.

Hi, as someone who observes more than contributes, I agree that MN women have a tendency to tear each other to pieces as (IMO) entertainment or sport. It's keyboard warrior in action.

I don't think the replies represent their presentation in real life or we'd have a lot more shittier experiences in our day to day.

I have my "big girl pants on" and don't care who comes at me for saying it as I find it, @BunnyInTheRavine ...

Because HQ publish demographic data on posters
Would you mind sharing these here?

Whilst the shangri-la you describe sounds great in the real world the 50% of the second sex class are regularly treated differently - and not in a good way
I am not disputing this in anyway, but supporting the right for women to be treated fairly and equitably is totally different to expecting to agree or lift up any poster here just because they happen to be female.

I try to do it because I think we are at a disadvantage to men. We are overly maligned and inadequately celebrated by comparison with men.We are held to higher standards, and criticised more harshly.
The world and its dog feels entitled to a view on our appearance, our parenting, our relationship choices, our career or lack of, and those views are often negative.
Many women internalise this and we can have less self confidence and be harder on ourselves, struggle to see our strengths and short change ourselves with what we settle for.
I don't like to see this and if I can say something that helps a woman see she is not to blame, she is worthy, and deserves more, then I will.
If I get the chance to support a woman in her career I will.
If I get the chance to say something encouraging and supportive to a woman who is struggling, I will.
If you don't get it, then don't do it. It's not compulsory. I guess I have reason to be thankful to other women for uplifting me, so I want to pay it forward.

We are overly maligned and inadequately celebrated by comparison with men.We are held to higher standards, and criticised more harshly
I personally don't agree with this, but even if I did, it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't make women more special.

I've had many bosses in my life. The majority were brilliant, both men and women. Some women were so supportive and encouraging. Some were absolute bullies.

So no, I won't root for someone just because they are a woman. I'll root for whoever is showing characteristics that are worthy of it, regardless of their sex, age, religion, culture etc...

Which is entirely up to you. I see things differently.

Which is entirely up to you. I see things differently
Well yes, that's obvious. That's what AIBU is all about, voicing different opinions and respecting that it is about different perceptions, not who is right or wrong.

You lost me at “safe space”. It’s a fucking internet forum! 🤯

This is pretty bang on really. I’m a very patient person but it does get me down seeing yet another post from a (usually) young woman wondering if it’s her causing her bloke to control/hit/bully her etc.
It makes me genuinely thrilled when a woman posts that they’ve got away from an abuser and are starting again.

I sometimes think MN should gather all those threads and stick them at the top of the subjects list as that’s probably the most socially important outcome this forum has achieved over the years.

If such a thing had been around when I was a young woman it would have been life changing.

frankly when you’ve been through the level of shit most of these women have, there isn’t really a lot someone on the internet can say to upset you as you’re already fairly disassociated from your feelings as a matter of survival.

There are people who are like this IRL too. My sister is like this. It has to be seen to be believed. Ironically she has calmed down a lot as she is old and chronically ill now, although I can’t speak for her internet activity now as I have very little to do with her, but at last check-in she was still getting genuine pleasure at being inexplicably mean to people who didn’t deserve it.
I suspect our family would be a fascinating case study for a psychologist !

My first and only question I have put on Mumsnet was to ask if mumsnetters went out of their way to be unnecessarily mean and unkind. My opinion hadn’t changed.

I’ve been here years and the nastiness is quite something at the moment.

100% agree with you. You're not alone. Contrary to popular belief on here, women CAN do wrong. In my personal experience, I've never seen any man behave as atrociously as women do.

And yet we wonder why "Be Kind" is primarily aimed at women. Hmmmmm...

I know emojis are lazy, but I have no words to respond to this claim.🙄

Your personal experience is entirely irrelevant and contradictory to the objective information we have access to though, isn't it? We all know that the atrocities committed by men far out weigh those by women. This is not a matter of opinion but of fact. So while your experience has given you a particular world view, it isn't reflective of reality.

I bet you spend most of your time on AIBU. You need to explore the site and really find out about all the topics, then make your own Favourites list. The women on here (and some men) are extremely kind, funny and supportive imo and I’ve been here 23 years

You'll never get everybody to like everybody else, so don't let it drag you down.
The internet's a big place. If you don't like MN, try Netmums (polar opposite), AskTheRoom (somewhere in between) or even Reddit (some corners of it are alright!). They've all got a different feel to them.

You can tell that you didn't go to an all-girls school! Nastiness between females starts at a young age 😟

I am not really sure what you mean by "raising" people up?

If someone is trying to better themselves, coping with a lot, finding things challenging, asking for advice etc I will always offer words of encouragement because I am not a dick head.

However, there are lots of posts I see on here where (some) women are absolutely being unreasonable and whilst I wont be rude, I will be honest about it. I am not going to patronise or talk down to someone I dont agree with just because they are female and I feel I have to somehow make my disagreement into saccharine because they are female and therefore, feeble. Frankly, I dont even get how that would be remotely helpful at all.

The only time I have ever been rude on this site is when someone has literally attacked me for no reason at all and in those cases, yes, I will bite back because people that are happy to dish it out do need to learn how to take it I'm afraid.

Aside from all of the above, this is a public forum on the internet and if you are that sensitive to other people's opinions then its perhaps wise to limit your time online because you can only change yourself and how you react to others, you wont ever be able to change other people.

Raising women unequivocally just because they share a sex with you is nonsense. If they have done something immoral and ask if they are unreasonable they should be told as much. Women aren’t all perfect shining models of goodness and this is a site that asks for opinions.

Yes, swearing or name calling or putting the boot in is uncalled for. But sometimes people need to be told the bare naked truth about their own behaviour in order to become a better person.

Your personal experience is entirely irrelevant and contradictory to the objective information we have access to though, isn't it? We all know that the atrocities committed by men far out weigh those by women. This is not a matter of opinion but of fact. So while your experience has given you a particular world view, it isn't reflective of reality
Personal experiences ARE muchmore relevant than generalisations. It has nothing to do with world view, it's to do with how we treat the people we come across in life.

The fact that men commit more atrocities shouldn't mean that every men should be treated as if they are guilty whilst women are exempt of any judgement. You can't treat a whole group of people based on a percentage that is lower than 1%. It's a completely flowed argument.

Do you treat anyone living in a higher crime neighborhood differently just because they live in that area? Because they are more likely to be a criminal than someone from your neighbourhood? So you systematically support anyone from your neighbourhood, even if they happen to grow weed in their attic, whilst automatically condemning anyone from the other neighborhood, even if your experience of them has been good and positive?

Not everyone has to represent their sex, race, nationality, neighbourhood just by default of a characteristic than didn't choose.

I think it is personally. It’s a certain tone on here that you don’t see on threads, Reddit etc. Maybe you are all used to it.

Then you havent been on reddit much - ive seen some horrific rudeness on reddit. Way worse than stuff ive ever seen on here, especially threats of violence from men towards women

Personal experiences are more relevant than generalisations if we are talking about judging individuals and not stereotyping them in advance, of course.
However they do not trump objective factual data and legitimise views that contradict it. Such as 'I've never seen a man behave as atrociously as women do". Which attempts to give lie to a reality on the basis of anecdote.
That statement for one thing, cannot possibly be true unless PP lives in a bubble with no access to the news and is therefore ignorant of crime stats and the nature of crime committed and the sex of perpetrators.
For another, even if it were true, given its one person's anecdote pitted against huge amounts of objective evidence, its irrelevant.

However they do not trump objective factual data and legitimise views that contradict it
But real life is about adapting to life shared with individuals, not acting as statisticians or sociologists. Especially when people lack understanding of statistical sciences.

Using generalisations and statistics to determine how you treat individual people is the definition of discrimination. In this instance, sexism.

If the same was said about coloured people, how they are more likely to commit crimes because statistics show that more serious crimes are committed by coloured people and individual experience doesn't matter as much, this would be called racism, and rightly so. Yet sexism seem to be accepted and even encouraged here.

You can't use statistics to seclude people into groups and treat them individually according to the group they fall under.

I've never seen a man behave as atrociously as women do
That's as bad as saying the opposite. However, I don't come across this sort of statement on here. The opposite however....