To think it’s crazy that National Minimum wage is £27k

[Butterflyfluff]

Yet it’s not really enough to live on 😢

My first job paid £7.5k per year and I thought I was loaded! And I’m not ancient.

Now 2 people on NMW earn over £50k between them yet it’s really not enough these days.

DH and I live off around £50k gross between us and we have a very comfortable lifestyle (we have two children in primary school). It's a perfectly reasonable household income in inexpensive areas (I realise it wouldn't go far in London or much of the south). In my area the problem is lifestyle creep. People's expectations are crazy compared to when we were children. When I was at school most families didn't have one foreign holiday a year, but now a lot of the families I know expect to be able to go away 3-4 times a year. Families often shared one old car - now most people I know have a luxury car per adult, often on PCP. Meals out used to be a rare treat - whereas now a lot of my colleagues feel entitled to coffees, lunches, takeaways and meals out every week.

It’s the increases in housing costs that’s done it. The inflation levels in housing since the 1990s are astronomical and the impact has never really been admitted by authority. They quadrupled in 3 years or so just after 2000 ffs while wages never moved, and have only increased since then (the so called drop in 2008 was minimal and meant little outside London).

Then there’s the increases in utility prices.

You are not wrong, it is crazy, we haven’t seen this level of inflation for hundreds of years, and all governments of whatever colour have just been covering up or ignoring that for the last few decades.

I think - I work full time demanding non stop mentally exhausting nhs job for not much more than minimum wage.
probably get more of if I didn’t bother and claimed benefits instead tbh .

Well we get by nicely with kids,pets, new cars, holidays,no credit owed to anyone or anything. And get around £20k a year between us as I'm part time atm dh full..Takes good balancing and communication and we do fine and dandy

My first wage as a teacher was £25k a year (11 years ago) and I thought I was loaded. As in cocktails in The Savoy loaded. 🤑 😭

Agree @HardFuckingBird

Admittedly, the costs of energy and food have risen sharply in recent years and many people struggle with that, but I completely agree that expectations are often too high. We have become very spoilt over the past 30 years or so. When I was growing up, it was one second-hand car for the whole family, one holiday a year (and often UK holidays at that), hand-me-downs instead of new clothes. Going to a restaurant or even a cafe was a rare treat. The first time we had a takeaway I was 15 years old and I remember how exciting it was, how lucky I felt. We weren’t a poor family, my parents earnt fairly well, but we appreciated what we had. I don’t remember ever coveting what wealthier families had.

I think it is crazy that it is virtually impossible to live on it now.
I used to live alone in a flat on NMW, and was fine. But then back then, my quarterly electricity bill was about 75% of what it is monthly now. And then there is rent...

Some of the changes in expectation people like @HardFuckingBird report are probably the results of them travelling upward through the social hierarchy, although air travel is ridiculously cheap. Plenty do not have a car and plenty do not go abroad on holidays.

MyFairLady27impressive but how?

Is that salary or including benefits?

How are you getting 20k with 1 full time person? That’s below min wage

It’s housing, that’s the bottom line. Since 1999 my house has increased in value by 400%. Now looking at the exact level for our junior level jobs currently as it’s available to check online the pay has increased by 80.7%.

Salary! No benefits except for Child Benefit. Believe it or not, we are both GPs - we have a child with significant SEN so both work part-time.

We earn £50k a year from employed income. We do have some erratic, unreliable self-employed income which we can't rely on and don't budget for - we save it as soon as it hits our bank account.

That doesnt add up?
How can your combined wage be 20k if your DH works full time???

Cloud cuckoo land… you have other income ! So don’t pretend you live on £50k

plus - you have the option to work more and easily earn more should you need it ! You’re not scrimping by on min wage worrying about whether you can afford to put your heating on !

He is a tradesman
He earns £12, 570

In basically the year 2000? Everyone was going mental on credit cards and mini breaks became a thing

No he doesn’t, he takes that as a salary out of his limited company which he’s a director of. Plus dividends, plus whatever personal spending he puts through the business….

People are not stupid.

It also depends what you are classing as "full time", it would have to be 41hrs pw for an over 21 to earn 27k.
At 37.5h (which a LOT of jobs are! Especially in admin/office roles,) FT NMW is actually just under 25k. Which is even worse!

In the south east one person would struggle on that wage. My mortgage and bills alone are £2,500 thats without food or travel

This…in the north I was making our household income of 40-45k stretch to take us to Disney World every year pre-covid. It’s all relative, my mortgage was only 500 and I had no childcare costs because I had someone to do the school run, and we shared a car. You couldn’t do it in the south though, and you probably can’t even do it here now either with the cost of housing.

Is this a typo?

@MyFairLady27 I can’t actually believe you think you are “surviving on £20k”. If your DH is working full time and genuinely only takes home £12,570 he’s a shit tradesman and should consider a part time job at maccers.
You’ve got some brass posting that on here 🤣

I'm in the SE and earn 15k a year and my partner earns about 20 - 22k. We keep our money separate and pay 50/50 bills, and I do struggle on my wages but until my dogs go to doggy heaven then part time it is.

I'd feel absolutely loaded if I earned 27k!

Yeah this!

Hardly worth her posting what he tells HMRC his income is. All of his bills, new cars, holidays are paid how exactly 🙄