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To find this desperately sad? TW: freebirth death

484 replies

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 09/10/2026 18:11

I just feel so sad for her husband and little boy. I also understand why she didn’t want to go into hospital. Feels like women are stuck between a rock and a hard place with childbirth at the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/jun/20/stacey-warnecke-melbourne-influencer-died-freebirth-inquest-ntwnfb

OP posts:
FunPartyIdeas · 09/10/2026 22:04

@XelaM Because it's a fact?

EmeraldShamrock000 · 09/10/2026 22:04

Notellinganyone · 09/10/2026 18:19

If maternity services were better and a proper supported home birth was an option then maybe people wouldn’t be driven to this. Just look at the hospitals that have been under investigation for maternity services in recent years. A really thoughtless comment.

This.
My niece was living in Leeds. The maternity hospital have a disgraceful track record. I was delighted when she moved back to have the baby who arrived safely.
The midwives were very unprofessional.
I had my first in an NHS hospital it was a bit mad.
It is a very sad case.

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:04

XelaM · 09/10/2026 22:02

I don't understand how people can claim home births are safer than hospital births when for centuries women were dying in childbirth BECAUSE there were no hospitals or proper medical care. It's totally going backwards to the dark ages.

A modern home birth is birth with modern medical care though. Issues in birth can be identified and transfer to hospital can happen when needed.

FunPartyIdeas · 09/10/2026 22:06

Second and Subsequent Births: Planned home births are just as safe as hospital births or midwife-led units, with no difference in serious or fatal baby outcomes. They also result in fewer medical interventions, such as C-sections or episiotomies. 1, 2, 3] NHS

nhs.uk

Where to give birth: the options

Find out about your options for where to give birth: at home, in hospital or at a midwife-led (midwifery) unit. Learn more about which pain relief methods will be available.

https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and-birth/where-to-give-birth-the-options/

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:06

Jk987 · 09/10/2026 21:56

They were safe for you because you didn’t haemorrhage. No one can predict what will happen. I don’t think the fact she’s at Oxford University is relevant!

If I'd said Leeds or York would it have been more relevant?

If I'd have haemorrhaged I'd have been transferred within minutes. She refused an ambulance three times.

SiberFox · 09/10/2026 22:13

So free birthing women are terrified of bad hospital experiences but choose to ignore the vast number of free birth death accounts that have now been widely documented.

It’s one of many tragic examples of why building your life around being anti-establishment isn’t worth it.

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:13

We all occasionally share irrelevant details about our lives - in life and online. Makes us human. I'm excited as she's just started. Just as I'm excited about my boy staring sixth form. Not strictly relevant, no. But they are alive and thriving.

Actually my placenta didn't come out with ds. The midwives had to inject oxytocin and apply cord traction. Major haemorrhage risk factor but I didn't haemorrhage because they were there and knew what to do and I was close to a hospital if I did. I was not free birthing. You are less likely to haemorrhage in a subsequent labour if your first was ok too. Mine was. I made a calculated risk with knowledge of pros and cons. I do not think I was neglectful.

Free birthing I think is neglectful.

XelaM · 09/10/2026 22:15

FunPartyIdeas · 09/10/2026 22:04

@XelaM Because it's a fact?

Well it can't be true if you count how many women and children died in home births over the years. It may be true if you have medical help at home but not an unassisted "free birth" with some crazy doula.

LotsOfSmallThings · 09/10/2026 22:16

LumpkinPumpkin · 09/10/2026 20:20

I would tend to disagree.

There is a significant difference between something carrying an element of risk and something being inherently unsafe.

Safe maternity care isn’t about being physically in a hospital. It’s about appropriate risk assessment, skilled and experienced midwives, recognising deviations from normal physiology, and identifying when additional monitoring or medical intervention is required. Very often, complications don’t arise suddenly. There may be subtle changes in observations, or even behaviour, that prompt a recommendation for transfer. This is precisely why planned home births should be attended by qualified midwives, with pathways for escalation and transfer to hospital.

Obviously, there are occasions when serious emergencies occur suddenly, without any identifiable warning signs. In those circumstances, immediate access to hospital care can be life saving. I don’t think anyone should pretend otherwise. But neither should we pretend that being in hospital eliminates the possibility of an adverse outcome.

Labour and birth are not neatly defined periods of predictable risk. Complications can occur during the latent phase, established labour, second stage, immediately after birth or during the postnatal period. We don’t routinely admit women to hospital at term simply because labour could begin, and women planning hospital births don’t all arrive at the same stage of labour. Some will labour at home for many hours, others will arrive just before delivery, and some won’t make it through the hospital doors before giving birth. There is no magical point at which simply entering a hospital makes childbirth safe.

We actually have evidence on this. NICE guidance recognises that, for low-risk women who have previously given birth, planned home birth is associated with fewer interventions and no difference in serious outcomes for babies compared with planned obstetric-unit birth. For first-time mothers, the evidence does identify a small but important increase in serious adverse neonatal outcomes with planned home birth, and that absolutely deserves honest discussion with women who choose Homebirth.

I’m not arguing that home birth is appropriate for everybody, or that the location of birth never matters. Obviously it does. Individual risk factors, clinical circumstances, local services and access to emergency care are all important considerations.
But describing all home births as unsafe is an extraordinary oversimplification. It dismisses the evidence, the expertise of midwives, the importance of ongoing clinical assessment and, ultimately, women’s ability to make informed decisions about their own maternity care. Taking that choice away from women is simply paternalistic.

This is a brilliant post. MN tends to be quite anti-homebirth but more out of fear than fact. There are some scenarios in which you’re undoubtedly better off in hospital, but it is also the case that sometimes things just go wrong and it can’t be avoided, whether at home or at hospital, especially if labour isn’t yet fully established so monitoring is more sporadic.
However, this is a complete moot point as there’s an absolute world of difference between a planned home birth and a deliberate free birth. While it is true that often, women’s bodies DO know what to do, especially in an environment where they can follow their instincts and aren’t just being ‘done to’, it’s also true that childbirth is (relatively) incredibly dangerous and it’s absolutely mad to deliberately do it without any kind of trained medical monitoring or oversight.
I do think it should open the dialogue about why women are feeling the need to do such things, and probably also a discussion is merited about the overwhelming scale of information and misinformation that’s thrown at pregnant women and new mums and how difficult that makes it to distinguish good advice from bad.

FunPartyIdeas · 09/10/2026 22:16

@XelaM You can't "lump" assisted home births with free births; two entirely separate things!

Philandbill · 09/10/2026 22:17

XelaM · 09/10/2026 22:02

I don't understand how people can claim home births are safer than hospital births when for centuries women were dying in childbirth BECAUSE there were no hospitals or proper medical care. It's totally going backwards to the dark ages.

Because the definition of a home birth is different from the definition of a free birth. You have a midwife at a planned home birth. If you want stats look at the birthplace study from 2011. I had a planned home birth for my second child and I felt safer than I did at hospital. And I followed the stats, our outcomes were better from the home birth than the hospital birth.

XelaM · 09/10/2026 22:18

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:06

If I'd said Leeds or York would it have been more relevant?

If I'd have haemorrhaged I'd have been transferred within minutes. She refused an ambulance three times.

This is ridiculous. How can you rely on a semi-conscious patient making a rational call for an ambulance when they are half delirious? An ambulance also does not arrive in "minutes" unfortunately. It quite often takes hours. At a hospital you don't need to be transferred anywhere. You're already there where medical care is at hand.

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:20

XelaM · 09/10/2026 22:18

This is ridiculous. How can you rely on a semi-conscious patient making a rational call for an ambulance when they are half delirious? An ambulance also does not arrive in "minutes" unfortunately. It quite often takes hours. At a hospital you don't need to be transferred anywhere. You're already there where medical care is at hand.

You don't. The trained medics with you make that call.
Why on earth is that ridiculous.
I was a 5 minute drive from a hospital with a husband with a car. I had two midwives the whole time. How is that scenario anywhere close to so called free birthing? The stats don't even suggest it is more dangerous. I had TWO midwives with me the entire time.

LotsOfSmallThings · 09/10/2026 22:20

Oh and I agree with whoever said that the doula or birth friend or whatever bollocks she called herself is unbelievably cold and callous. What a piece of shit, taking thousands off women and then happy to sit back and watch them die - and then not even sorry or upset about her part in it! Just trying to cover her own back and get herself off the hook. Terrible, terrible human.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 09/10/2026 22:22

LotsOfSmallThings · 09/10/2026 22:20

Oh and I agree with whoever said that the doula or birth friend or whatever bollocks she called herself is unbelievably cold and callous. What a piece of shit, taking thousands off women and then happy to sit back and watch them die - and then not even sorry or upset about her part in it! Just trying to cover her own back and get herself off the hook. Terrible, terrible human.

Losing her mobile and binning the carpet…

OP posts:
FunPartyIdeas · 09/10/2026 22:25

@Fatsnowflake Agreed. 2 midwives with one birthing woman are of course far more likely and able to identify earlier things that may be starting to cause issue rather than no midwife at all available for considerable periods of time, or a midwife stretched to the max with trying to juggle the needs of a number of women in labour (which, let's face it, is standard in the majority of NHS hospital births).

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 09/10/2026 22:26

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:06

If I'd said Leeds or York would it have been more relevant?

If I'd have haemorrhaged I'd have been transferred within minutes. She refused an ambulance three times.

She'd been incorrectly reassured that she was having a panic attack and by the time the "birth keeper" realised Stacey needed medical attention, she was likely not thinking clearly because of blood loss.

My own decision-making was significantly impaired, and I said a lot of very stupid things on the phone to the despatcher while waiting for the ambulance. (I was on my own so they wanted to keep talking to me in case I passed out. I did.)

Lunde · 09/10/2026 22:26

Genevieva · 09/10/2026 20:37

Her birth companion was not a qualified midwife. If she was, she would have called an ambulance and got her to hospital rather than telling her she was having a panic attack. One wonders if she had any medical equipment to monitor the baby’s heart. It’s truly shocking.

There is a huge problem with these non-medically trained "birth assistants" who charge thousands to attend births but who take no responsibility when things go wrong.

There is a real issue in the US where midwifery is unregulated in some states so women pay thousands for a midwife/lay-midwife to attend births. The Washington Post did an article on one such midwife who has left a large number of botched births behind her but there is no national regulation or professional standards - only a sort of self regulation scheme and she is back as an accredited midwife in her state.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/home-birth-midwife-karen-carr/?itid=sr_18_4f57111e-4fae-4f32-af8a-2f62756bd616

Archived version
https://archive.is/Qz14z

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:27

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 09/10/2026 22:26

She'd been incorrectly reassured that she was having a panic attack and by the time the "birth keeper" realised Stacey needed medical attention, she was likely not thinking clearly because of blood loss.

My own decision-making was significantly impaired, and I said a lot of very stupid things on the phone to the despatcher while waiting for the ambulance. (I was on my own so they wanted to keep talking to me in case I passed out. I did.)

An actual medic wouldn't have done that if they were competent. She was failed.

Newname26 · 09/10/2026 22:30

FunPartyIdeas · 09/10/2026 22:04

@XelaM Because it's a fact?

How can it possibly be safer?
other than the luxury of 121 care, if something goes wrong, you then need to wait for the ambulance to come and get you.

Theres another stat I'd like to see
1 in x. many home births are transferred to hospital for whatever reason (stitching, ill baby, baby needing support latching, PPH)

Keeping in mind these are meant to be the low risk births

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:31

I see - it's not ridiculous that she refused an ambulance. It's ridiculous that the birthing assistant was not competent enough to take control when the delirious patient refused. But the situation was not something that should have ever happened. You need people to act on your behalf when you can't.

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:33

Newname26 · 09/10/2026 22:30

How can it possibly be safer?
other than the luxury of 121 care, if something goes wrong, you then need to wait for the ambulance to come and get you.

Theres another stat I'd like to see
1 in x. many home births are transferred to hospital for whatever reason (stitching, ill baby, baby needing support latching, PPH)

Keeping in mind these are meant to be the low risk births

They are transferred early though. It's not usually an emergency.
They err on the side of caution too, so if in doubt they transfer.

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 09/10/2026 22:34

I agree she was grossly, grossly failed. That's why it's important to contextualise her refusal of the ambulance.

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 22:35

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 09/10/2026 22:34

I agree she was grossly, grossly failed. That's why it's important to contextualise her refusal of the ambulance.

Yes I agree - it's important not to blame her for what happened during the birth itself.

FunPartyIdeas · 09/10/2026 22:35

@Newname26 I'm not the NHS!

Key Safety Findings

  • Subsequent Births: If you have already had a baby, a planned home birth is just as safe as a hospital or midwife-led unit birth, with no significant difference in baby mortality rates. 1, 2] NHS
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