Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find this desperately sad? TW: freebirth death

484 replies

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 09/10/2026 18:11

I just feel so sad for her husband and little boy. I also understand why she didn’t want to go into hospital. Feels like women are stuck between a rock and a hard place with childbirth at the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/jun/20/stacey-warnecke-melbourne-influencer-died-freebirth-inquest-ntwnfb

OP posts:
Bigcat25 · 09/10/2026 22:43

ToKittyornottoKitty · 09/10/2026 18:44

No, I think they should be banned. I was questioning your assumption that this woman thought the birthkeeper would recognise her medical needs, when the point of them is literally to avoid medical care. Hiring someone with the intention of avoiding all medical care and just trusting that the body will fix itself means you can’t reasonably assume they will no when you are internally bleeding in my opinion. It also says the woman declined an ambulance the first 2 times she was offered

The distrust of modern medicine costs lives. Look at someone like JFK jr and the people who follow him.

EdithBond · 09/10/2026 22:45

LotsOfSmallThings · 09/10/2026 22:16

This is a brilliant post. MN tends to be quite anti-homebirth but more out of fear than fact. There are some scenarios in which you’re undoubtedly better off in hospital, but it is also the case that sometimes things just go wrong and it can’t be avoided, whether at home or at hospital, especially if labour isn’t yet fully established so monitoring is more sporadic.
However, this is a complete moot point as there’s an absolute world of difference between a planned home birth and a deliberate free birth. While it is true that often, women’s bodies DO know what to do, especially in an environment where they can follow their instincts and aren’t just being ‘done to’, it’s also true that childbirth is (relatively) incredibly dangerous and it’s absolutely mad to deliberately do it without any kind of trained medical monitoring or oversight.
I do think it should open the dialogue about why women are feeling the need to do such things, and probably also a discussion is merited about the overwhelming scale of information and misinformation that’s thrown at pregnant women and new mums and how difficult that makes it to distinguish good advice from bad.

I agree @LumpkinPumpkin’s post is excellent.

I had my second and third DC at home at 38 and 41. My first was a planned home birth, but I received poor midwifery, which resulted in an emergency c-section.

I researched very thoroughly and had excellent, very experienced midwives who got to know me very well before the births and remained with me throughout labour.

’Freebirth’ is extremely risky and certainly shouldn’t be compared to home birth.

I’m appalled at the state of maternity services in UK, which seem to have worsened since I had my children. I feel so sad that so many women have such awful experiences for want of decent one-to-one midwifery. I also feel for midwives who have to attend to more than one labouring woman.

staceyflack · 09/10/2026 22:56

Terribly sad. And, likely completely avoidable. Fucking doula, fucking panic attack. If she was a properly trained medical professional i.e. midwife, she'd have recognised the poor woman's increased respiratory rate was hypovolaemic shock from the haemorrhage, taken appropriate emergency action and this mother would probably still be here.

staceyflack · 09/10/2026 23:00

'Birthkeeper'... the fucking arrogance.

Nonplus · 10/10/2026 00:45

Free birth and home birth are totally different.

Anecdotally, the majority of women I know who gave birth vaginally in hospital have opted for home births with their second children.

There are two midwives in my post natal group. Both had home births.

🤷

Bigcat25 · 10/10/2026 01:20

staceyflack · 09/10/2026 22:56

Terribly sad. And, likely completely avoidable. Fucking doula, fucking panic attack. If she was a properly trained medical professional i.e. midwife, she'd have recognised the poor woman's increased respiratory rate was hypovolaemic shock from the haemorrhage, taken appropriate emergency action and this mother would probably still be here.

She states that she isn't their to give medical advice or influence, then don't tell her it's probably a fucking panic attack and minizime the situation! She sounds extremely uncaring.

graygoose · 10/10/2026 01:22

There’s a podcast about free birth that I think is called the Birth Keepers I thoroughly recommend checking out. Free birthing is NOT the same as a home birth. A true “free birth” involves zero medical prenatal care. No scans, no medical appointments. You could be carrying twins and you wouldn’t know it. You give birth at home but without a medically trained professional, either just with your partner or a “birth keeper” which you hope at best is a trained doula or midwife but can be some woo woo women who took an online course for 2 hours and sells herself as a birth keeper.

Home births are births that happen at home but under supervision of a trained midwife. And the mother will have had prenatal appointments to determine whether she is high risk such that a home birth might not be suitable.

I say this as someone who had a hospital planned c section (baby came 6 weeks early so turned out to be an emergency c section). Home birth will never be for me but I don’t judge women who did it after doing proper research, with proper prenatal care and a qualified midwife. That is vastly different to some of the very upsetting stories of women refusing or even being denied medical assistance in the name of a free birthing cult that insists that birth is over medicalised and dying in childbirth is impossible if you breathe properly. That enrages me because it’s a sense loss of life for mum, baby or both. I say this with all sincerity: fuck free birthers.

graygoose · 10/10/2026 01:27

graygoose · 10/10/2026 01:22

There’s a podcast about free birth that I think is called the Birth Keepers I thoroughly recommend checking out. Free birthing is NOT the same as a home birth. A true “free birth” involves zero medical prenatal care. No scans, no medical appointments. You could be carrying twins and you wouldn’t know it. You give birth at home but without a medically trained professional, either just with your partner or a “birth keeper” which you hope at best is a trained doula or midwife but can be some woo woo women who took an online course for 2 hours and sells herself as a birth keeper.

Home births are births that happen at home but under supervision of a trained midwife. And the mother will have had prenatal appointments to determine whether she is high risk such that a home birth might not be suitable.

I say this as someone who had a hospital planned c section (baby came 6 weeks early so turned out to be an emergency c section). Home birth will never be for me but I don’t judge women who did it after doing proper research, with proper prenatal care and a qualified midwife. That is vastly different to some of the very upsetting stories of women refusing or even being denied medical assistance in the name of a free birthing cult that insists that birth is over medicalised and dying in childbirth is impossible if you breathe properly. That enrages me because it’s a sense loss of life for mum, baby or both. I say this with all sincerity: fuck free birthers.

And just to add: the oldest profession in humanity is not sex work. It’s midwifery. We have never given birth without assistance from other women (historically) with experience and later on training. The idea that human births should be as straightforward as a dog or a cat is laughable and biologically untrue.

Hedgehoggin · 10/10/2026 01:27

Fatsnowflake · 09/10/2026 18:21

I had two home births but with two experienced midwives monitoring me. I don't understand why you would have someone with no medical knowledge there. If my labour had failed to progress I'd have been transferred to hospital rather than left at home. Baby's heart rate was monitored and I had an injection of vitamin k to help deliver the placenta. I just don't understand why you would risk your life and baby's life like this.

There’s kudos in some circles in having had this kind of birth experience, and there’s a narrative that you’re doing your baby harm if you have medical intervention, and you’re more of a mother and woman for giving birth this way. There’s also a narrative around the body knowing exactly what to do when in labour and this blind faith in that being the case. Certainly if I had subscribed to this nonsense I would be dead along with my children because my body, whilst incredible at the conception part, was utterly rubbish at the other end! It’s incredibly sad and absolutely horrifying that this birthing movement exists. The women involved around the world in this should all be prosecuted for peddling such utter crap and for lining their pockets whilst women and babies die unnecessary and frankly medieval deaths.

toomanycatsforsanity · 10/10/2026 05:47

The Birthkeeper movement is terrifying.

I once met a Pentecostal Christian who lived an hour from a tertiary hospital (babies were taken by helicopter to the base hospital if needed). She was planning a freebirth. I asked her how would she cope if the baby died and she said, it would all be God's will and she would accept it... dunno why she'd think God wanted her to risk her life and her baby's life. This was in NZ where homebirths are free.

Lmnop22 · 10/10/2026 07:24

Metalmotha · 09/10/2026 20:19

The hospital nearly killed me and my baby by breaking my waters too early then giving me medication my wristband clearly showed I was allergic to, then cane the cover up, undermining of my mental state, refusal to tell me who my midwife had been and that was just the start. Not to mention the full blown argument between SCBU doctors and the ward midwife’s. There’s a reason all these investigations keep happening

I do get that some people have awful experiences in hospital, but on the whole outcomes are better and deaths less frequent when women have access to a hospital when giving birth.

Of course there are exceptions and I’m sorry you had such a traumatic birth - it really does make motherhood much harder to enjoy in this early months when you go through so much just to have your baby

LoveHearts69 · 10/10/2026 07:24

XelaM · 09/10/2026 22:18

This is ridiculous. How can you rely on a semi-conscious patient making a rational call for an ambulance when they are half delirious? An ambulance also does not arrive in "minutes" unfortunately. It quite often takes hours. At a hospital you don't need to be transferred anywhere. You're already there where medical care is at hand.

At home you’re supported with two midwives who are able to identify issues quicker than they likely would in a stretched hospital ward. They also carry injections to control bleeding in the event of a haemorrhage.

Both times I’ve been transferred to hospital during and after a homebirth the ambulance came within 2-5 minutes and there was a team waiting at the hospital for me. They used the time it took to get there to set everything up so it wasn’t any slower than if I were already at the hospital imo.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 10/10/2026 07:50

I saw her husband’s announcement of her death and he called her complication ‘extremely rare’. I looked it up and PPH happens in 1 in 4 women, and a major PPH in 1 in 200. So yes rare but not ‘being hit by lightening’ rare. I feel it was a little irresponsible to say this.

OP posts:
ExtraHotDoubleShot · 10/10/2026 07:52

Bigcat25 · 10/10/2026 01:20

She states that she isn't their to give medical advice or influence, then don't tell her it's probably a fucking panic attack and minizime the situation! She sounds extremely uncaring.

Yes she definitely sounded like she was in a quasi medical role - telling her she hadn’t lost blood, then telling her she had and it was more than normal, then asking if she wanted to call an ambulance. If she wasn’t then why didn’t the husband do those things?

OP posts:
OP posts:
WhatNoRaisins · 10/10/2026 07:56

The way this birthkeeper was trying to hide evidence of what went down looks really dodgy. I also don't get not calling an ambulance, I'd expect a complete random off the street to at least do that in those circumstances.

I do think that we need to look at the hospital experience more seriously. If it's inevitable that more women need to be put through unpleasant induction processes then we need to do what we can to improve the experience. I'm thinking improved privacy (my own cervix didn't seem to dilate when labouring in public) and access to pain relief and support for the women.

BlackRowan · 10/10/2026 08:07

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 10/10/2026 07:52

Qualified midwives aren’t always the answer either sadly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0516207gq2o

I can’t believe they are blaming the trust and midwives in this case. This woman was determined not to be in the hospital and not to cooperate with midwives and doctors

Piglet89 · 10/10/2026 08:10

Lal, the “birthkeeper” in that story, sounds really cold and more interested in covering her own ass.

Not someone I’d want caring for me when I was so vulnerable.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 10/10/2026 08:14

BlackRowan · 10/10/2026 08:07

I can’t believe they are blaming the trust and midwives in this case. This woman was determined not to be in the hospital and not to cooperate with midwives and doctors

The midwives neglected their basic functions! They didn’t monitor the baby’s heart rate, didn’t call an ambulance when they glaringly needed to, didn’t take critical readings and when the baby was born they lost control entirely and didn’t resuscitate her correctly. Something the paramedic managed to do within seconds when they arrived.

Jennifer wasn’t informed of the risks properly when she chose a homebirth for her 2nd baby because of the focus on ‘gentle’ language so as not to scare women.

OP posts:
XelaM · 10/10/2026 08:14

BlackRowan · 10/10/2026 08:07

I can’t believe they are blaming the trust and midwives in this case. This woman was determined not to be in the hospital and not to cooperate with midwives and doctors

Is that in the article? I thought the midwives didn't monitor the baby's heart rate properly and didn't call an ambulance when it was slowing down for an hour? Also, the equipment they tried to resuscitate the baby didn't work and they never checked it prior ro attending. No one read her birth plan or knew that she had lost a lot of blood with her first birth.

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 10/10/2026 08:16

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 10/10/2026 07:50

I saw her husband’s announcement of her death and he called her complication ‘extremely rare’. I looked it up and PPH happens in 1 in 4 women, and a major PPH in 1 in 200. So yes rare but not ‘being hit by lightening’ rare. I feel it was a little irresponsible to say this.

I take your point because I agree it's not rare, but I suspect he said that because it's what he sincerely and genuinely believed. That kind of misapprehension is exactly what motivates pregnant women to pursue freebirth.

If he and Stacey had had any idea how common post-partum hemorrhages are without intervention, they'd have wanted a qualified midwife there to do at least preventative uterine massage, cord traction and to monitor for signs of excessive bleeding. Maybe Stacey would even have been willing to have a preventative oxytocin injection.

nutbrownhare15 · 10/10/2026 08:20

I'm very upset about the judgemental comments towards women who make different birth choices than you on this thread. Birth will always carry risks. The risk of needing to go into theatre is only one of them. There is also the risk of unneeded interventions which caused trauma and physical damage to women's bodies. I'm seeing women judge those who choose a free birth but also a homebirth. How about directing your anger towards medical systems which don't provide compassionate women led maternity care and genuine choices for birth setting.

KindlySurfiingPlatypus · 10/10/2026 08:32

@ThatLoudCat @rumerx giving birth at home without a midwife isn't the same as freebirthing. Freebirthers don't have any medical checkups or midwife visits during their pregnancy so high risk pregnancies don't get identified, they have no idea if the baby is going to be breech, etc.

Newname26 · 10/10/2026 08:34

FunPartyIdeas · 09/10/2026 22:35

@Newname26 I'm not the NHS!

Key Safety Findings

  • Subsequent Births: If you have already had a baby, a planned home birth is just as safe as a hospital or midwife-led unit birth, with no significant difference in baby mortality rates. 1, 2] NHS
Edited

I had a PPH with my second but not with my first.
My first baby ended up with jaundice so wasn't allowed home until that was cleared.
And I needed stitching with both.

That's why I'd love to know how many end up getting transferred to hospital anyway.

XelaM · 10/10/2026 08:35

KindlySurfiingPlatypus · 10/10/2026 08:32

@ThatLoudCat @rumerx giving birth at home without a midwife isn't the same as freebirthing. Freebirthers don't have any medical checkups or midwife visits during their pregnancy so high risk pregnancies don't get identified, they have no idea if the baby is going to be breech, etc.

That's crazy. Why would anyone want to do this?!? It's going back to the dark ages where childbirth was extremely dangerous.