Bicycles and scooters on pavements and shared walking spaces

[PerhapsPerhapsMaybe]

AIBU to think that scooters and bicycles on pavements is out of control and it’s time there were laws to protects pedestrians

Very decent of you, I was put off riding on roads as a child when a car overtook me too close and fast so that I lost balance and went into a ditch full of nettles. I'm always very careful when passing cyclists because of that experience.

But what I do find annoying is summer skiers on the road. They use long rollerskates, like mini skis, and one guy I sometimes see on my way home from work slaloms from one side of the road to the other, making it impossible to pass him at all!

Personally, I do & so do many other cyclists. But you will always get a degree of conflict because you are forcing two groups with a differential in speed to share a space which is not designed for it. At best it will be uncomfortable for both groups.

Also you will always get a minority of people behaving inconsiderately whatever mode of transport they use: pedestrians smash glass / use long dog leads / graffiti etc; cyclists impact on pedestrians as described on this thread; e-motorbike & e-scooter riders use illegal vehicles & ride dangerously; and drivers commit a myriad of driving offences including speeding / tailgating / using mobiles / ignoring road signs / drink & drug driving etc. Cyclists are the only group that are blamed for the antisocial behaviour of other people (whom they have no control over) simply because those people use the same form of transport.

If we want to stop people behaving like this, then that involves better engineering & law enforcement. Re cycling, engineering is the priority because a lot of this conflict could be reduced through separating cyclists from both drivers and pedestrians - that’s a tenet of Dutch engineering & is why they have such good cycle routes (and why their roads are better than ours too).

Where I live, there is one piece of cycle route that is an extremely narrow shared space pavement. It’s completely unsuitable (which was pointed out at various consultations) but my council still put it in. The road is completely unsuitable unless you are a fast & confident cyclist and there is no alternative route. Inevitably, there will be a lot of conflict and resentment between road users because the road design is not fit for purpose. You could ameliorate this to a degree by people always being on their best behaviour, but to solve it needs better engineering.

I'm more interested in my safety as a pedestrian, because I'm pretty sure that in a collision with a cyclist I'd come off the worse of the two.

It's not an equivalence. If I get knocked down by a biker on a pavement I'm not going to be lying there thinking 'could be worse, I could be one of the 30, 000 people killed or injured by a car so I got off lightly, really.'

Why DO people minimise the risk to pedestrians like this?

I dont see anyone minimising the risks to pedestrians. The fact is pedestrians in general are not being killed or injured by bikes

Have you ever tried riding a bike at walking speed?

If you cannot ride so it’s safe for the rest of the users of a shared space then you belong on the street.

Pedestrians shouldn’t have to be exposed to very same danger you are trying to avoid.

I can ride at walking speed if needed. It's just really hard work, and defeats the purpose of being on a bike.

The danger that cyclists present to pedestrians is NOT the same as the danger that cars present to both cyclists and pedestrians.

Personally, if I'm on a shared space, it's because I'm supervising children on bikes. Do you expect them to cycle on the road?

Yes just put your feet down

I thought there were rules in place, they just aren’t used.

another thing that grinds my gears is, if you’re on a motorcycle/moped and you undercut a car you would fail your test/get points and a fine because it’s dangerous driving/riding - yet cyclists can do it apparently!

perhaps all cycle lanes should allow 50cc motorcycles/moped on its cycle lanes like a few forward thinking councils have allowed already.

That's hardly going to get you anywhere.

The problem with uk infrastructure is that assumes bikes move either like pedestrians or cars. However, they don't move like either, and if you force it, it makes cycling untenable. This means more cars on the road instead, killing pedestrians.

There are miles of unused cycles lanes.

I’m not talking about shared spaces. If a bike has a right to be on a path I’ll willingly move out of its way. I’m talking about pedestrian-only pavements.

Because they are unusable. If a cycle lane is useable, people will use it. No one actually wants to dodge cars or pedestrians. Howevr, few cycle lanes in the uk are are actually useable.

Why don’t you take it up with the councils who provide it, instead of harassing pedestrians in their safe place?

Filtering is rule 67 of the Highway Code for cyclists & should only happen when traffic is stationery or slow-moving and even then cyclists are warned to proceed with caution. It’s a really useful rule to stop cyclists sitting in traffic jams - it’s not in the interests of motorists to stop this as you want to encourage people to cycle in congested areas to help tackle congestion.

I’ve cycled on cycle routes where mopeds are allowed in the Netherlands and it’s not great due to speed of the mopeds especially when cycling with children (it’s the only thing that I dislike about Dutch cycle routes - otherwise they are amazing). The whole point of cycle routes is to enable children & less confident cyclists to cycle by giving them a safe route away from traffic. It defeats the purpose of them to let mopeds etc use them.

I think the definition of slow moving traffic is ambiguous - just a personal opinion. There is a cut thru where we live that electric cyclists use and they come down faster than a moped can.

what is the difference between a 50cc moped that does around 25mph or an electric cycle that does over 30mph on a cycle lane.

I do take it up with council.

Yikes, where did all this bitter nastiness come from?

That sounds awful. I’m a keen cyclist but also a stickler for the rules. I quite often shout at cyclists (usually deliveroo or lime bikes) that the rules apply to them. My kids have asked me to stop…. Last year a man did the same on the high street and got punched. He died. More broadly a bit more respect all round would help. I find it depressing to see how many posters refer to twatty cyclists or similar. Some are inconsiderate, some aren’t. Likewise motorists and pedestrians. Likewise parents who don’t supervise their scooting kids. Be kind.

@Aliceintheattic

That's hardly going to get you anywhere.

Well, you wait until you can safely pass the walkers. Yes, it may delay you by a very small amount of time. If necessary, walk behind them until the path widens and you can pass, or you could actually speak to them whilst you're walking behind and ask them politely if you can pass.

No different to drivers of vehicles having to wait in queues or who get stuck behind slow moving vehicles (tractors, cyclists etc) and unable to pass them until the road widens/visibility improves etc. Drivers generally don't bully slow moving road users out of their way because they're in a hurry (Yes, some do, but most don't!).

What bitter nastiness?

Do you mean trying to keep safe in a space that is supposed to be safe for me as a pedestrian?

The asdumong that juat because I woukd like to ride a bike, I "harrass pedestrians"?

The reality is tgat I don't routinely ride a bike, because there is nowhere safe for me to do so.

And because of people like you there is nowhere safe for me to go.

In principle, I agree with you.

The frustration just arises because it feels like cyclists are not welcome on either the road or the footpath. You are expected to move like a car while on the road, or like a walker on shared paths. Neither actually works, so I no longer really ride.

I don't ride a bike, therefore you aren't safe?