Bicycles and scooters on pavements and shared walking spaces

[PerhapsPerhapsMaybe]

AIBU to think that scooters and bicycles on pavements is out of control and it’s time there were laws to protects pedestrians

I mean, why don't you just get rid of the car and walk?

This is absolute rubbish. Admittedly the stats are old, but the Stats19 dataset it comes from has not been updated yet, so this is the latest we have.

For pedestrians walking on the footway or verge, 197 have been killed or seriously injured by cyclists, vs 4,442 by motor vehicles.

See table 3 here: pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8924875/

So, pedestrians still would be safer if there were no cyclists on the pavements?

And just as abstractly, if all cyclists rode on pavements all the time, we'd save about 4400 serious injuries or deaths per year ( the number of cyclists killed or injured by cars )

But you will be killing more pedestrians.

Don’t they matter to you?

Honestly, if you can’t safely on the road, don’t do. Don’t invade others’ safe spaces.

The most effective way to protect pedestrians is to get rid of cars

Exactly.

Of course, I agree, and the parents should be held responsible. But that's a very different point to shoving a 3 year old onto the road on a bike.

I don't invade people's safe spaces. I don't ride anymore, as I've told you several times.

However, there are no useable safe spaces for cyclists. It's understanable that they seek safer spaces on the pavement.

Do car drivers need to drive? As for parking issues, parked cars in london which sit idle for 95% of their life time, take up 14 square kilometers. Perhaps some spaces could be given over to bikes.

Exactly - and how are they meant to learn? There is only so much they can learn going round and round a yard or something. It's a long, slow process.

No three year should be on the road of course!

I learned to ride a bike with my parents at a local park, perfectly adequate. Once you are able to ride a bike safely and effectively (and of a suitable age) you should be on the road.

Sure, pedestrians would be 5% safer if not a single cyclist ever cycled on a pavement. Only 5%.

95% of the risk of pedestrians being killed or seriously injured while walking on pavements would remain.

And lots more cyclists would die on the roads.

Would that make you happier?

Nope, Covid was estimated to cause 15 million deaths.

The WHO declared Covid-19 to be a pandemic on 11/03/2020, after 4,291 deaths.

It's a shame as I think ebikes and escooters could be a great solution to replace lots of short car journeys but in many places they are a menace.

I've walked around several cities where they are flying around pedestrianised areas. The part of London I work in is relatively less bad for it but there are still people riding up the wrong side of the road, making sudden turns etc. Have been close to being taken out by someone riding fast on the wrong side of the road a couple of times as you are just not expecting them to come that way.

And in parts of central London even the pedal bikes are bad enough. Some really badly designed junctions where bike lanes go over the pavement or the bike lane is two way and the vehicle traffic is one way. It's super confusing. And some men ride really fast and aggressively, they won't slow down for anything.

The issue is that telling people to behave properly when travelling doesn’t work very well - we’ve been doing it for decades & we still have all these problems.

What does work is using infrastructure to restrain behaviour & to separate modes of transport by weight & speed, and then having effective law enforcement for the issues that infrastructure doesn’t solve and decent reporting to increase public awareness of how anti-social this behaviour is.

To apply this to pavement riding;

—bicycles: if the road doesn’t meet the standards of Local Transport Note 1/20 then that’s a matter for the Council’s transport department
-e-motorbikes: they have infrastructure (as they should be on the road) so it’s a question for both the local police (both for riding & also to see if riders are following the law re licences, helmets & insurance etc) but also for central government who could restrict the sale of these vehicles on various safety grounds
-e-scooters - illegal unless part of a hire scheme so a matter for the police
-hire schemes - these are a matter for the local council if they aren’t working well as some councils have ended them. I do think the parking is a concern but I am quite uneasy about how this tackled outside of London as it seems unfair to tolerate this from car drivers but not from hire schemes.

I don't think that's quite correct. Children aren't allowed to cycle on footpaths (the clue is in the foot part) but in reality it's not enforced.

Yes, 4,291 after just a month or so, when the exponential growth was clear to see.

I cycle to and from my local parkrun (including on a shared use cycle path). On the way back I cycle a short stretch on the pavement to avoid two awkward right turns. It is usually empty. If it isn't, I get off and push my bike around the pedestrian.

How is that bad, entitled, lacking manners and any sense of decency?

Answer: it isn't.

As for the whataboutery. It's VEHICLES which kill and injure people (or better put, drivers). Far too much energy is put into moaning about cyclists Who Are Not The Problem. A nuisance yes, generally dangerous, no.

Other than some e-bike riders in London.

Because the age of criminal responsibility is 10.

I honestly don’t care about your excuses.

And, quite frankly, am getting bored with it.

You are wrong to cycle on the pavement.

That’s about the end of it.

Why should I give priority to the safety of people who don’t care about mine?