DH and toddler coat debacle

[DrWhosJazzyScarf]

So, husband takes daughter to nursery in the morning. She is being a little rascal and won’t put her coat on. Fridays is ice cream day, so I said to her, ‘Pop on your coat and we’ll have ice cream later. But only if you put your coat on…’

Husband then gets very angry and says, ‘Thank you VERY much. Now she’ll be screaming for ice cream on the way to nursery.’ I said it’s a Friday tradition, and - to me - a bit of screeching en route to nursery is standard toddler practice, especially when tired on Fridays.

He then says the problem is that I always have to be right - that I couldn’t accept being ‘wrong’ about this. From my point of view, I was just explaining my thought process - she responds well to a potential reward. He then told me, ‘I don’t want to speak to you any more. Say goodbye to DC, we’re going now’.

Some of you may recognise me from previous husband issues (most recently inset days) - clearly, we’re having issues at the moment. I do the vast majority of everything for our child (he drops DC off 4x a week and that’s pretty much it.) I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable - my sense of self is pretty shot at the moment, TBH.

People of Mumsnet, please do weigh in. If I’m in the wrong, I’ll take it.

I used to say to Dd make your choice and suffer the consequences, if the issue was minor. She once refused to put her coat on, she said ' I choose to be cold' we got just out of the front door when she said 'I choose to put my coat on now' I'm with Dh on this one.

Doing the bigger share of the parenting work does not make you right all the time. Being right last time does not make you right this time.
In this case, DH was right.

Is the screaming in the car whilst he's driving?

Toddlers don't have much concept of Friday, so your DH is right. Coat=Ice Cream is the message.

You have an entirely separate DH issue.

I used to be a childminder . My tip is no asking a child to do anything they don’t have a choice in. At the moment it’s probably ok, but in the winter she needs a coat. Don’t say anything, just pick her up and put on her coat whilst chatting about other things .

I think unless he had asked for your help you let him deal with it. I definitely wouldn’t have promised, a nursery age child, a treat for later. They don’t understand that like we do.

My opinion would be you can wear you coat or not and be cold. Take coat with you so if they ask for it later. If not, then they get to be cold. Consequence of her actions. It’s not like it’s freezing.

I think your issues maybe clouding your judgement on this. So yes, YABU.

I think what you said was okay. Presumably she knows the ice cream only happens on Friday so you were just reminding her she gets a treat if she behaves. It's not like she's being bribed with it every day.
The bigger issue though is your DH. Why do you let him speak to you in such a horrible manner? I think that's what you need to focus on, not if your child gets ice cream. Do you really want to put up with him? Will you notice the difference if his sole contribution is taking DC to nursery?

your husband was being horrible but honestly I wouldn't have bothered with the coat. If she won't wear it fine she will just be cold. You have to pick your battles and that is one I wouldn't have . Because with young children the more you insist the more they will resist. Let her make up her own mind about wearing the coat and she might want to put it on

Well he won't ask for your input next time will he? Win - win!

They walk.
The OP said that.

So did your strategy work, did your daughter put on her coat?

To those of you who leave the choice to the child, what if it's pouring with rain? Freezing cold?

I know this is more about a child's coat, and it's part of a bigger picture about how your husband responds to you.

Normally yes if you take the coat with you , dont make a fuss about it they will put the coat on if they are cold and wet.
It's something I learned with my own children many years ago and it's the same now with my grandchildren. My GD will always resist if you ask her to put her coat on but if she is cold and it's her decision she will wear it. When it stops becoming a battle they don't think they have lost control by wearing it.

dear @DrWhosJazzyScarf I have also read your previous post.

Your DH doesn't sound very nice at all.

How old is he? How old are you? What do you think he will be like in 10, 20, 30 ...50 years time?

You've told us you're a teacher/main breadwinner and that you do everything else around the house. While he does 4x p/week nursery drop offs, even though he works from home.
So, if you're full time teaching & conscientious, during term-time you'll be averaging around a 45-50hr week at school and/or on school work.
He's nowhere near pulling his weight as well as being nasty to you.
I'd not be having any more children with him.

If he doesn't radically square up (unlikely) I'd be thinking of moving nearer to your mum, who sounds nice, and organising a nicer life for yourself and DC.

So to separate out the responses then:

How he talks to you is a result of you having done something quite frustrating that would negatively affect him immediately when he was already stressed. On the other hand, he shouldn't speak to you like that anyway, but on the other hand he didn't rant or rave, he just wanted to shut the convo down, it seems?

Andon the ice cream issue - well, that was a big boo boo. Reminds me of the time my husband handed my son the ice cream to take to the freezer, and told him he could have some when he finished dinner. My son ate one bite of dinner, declared himself finished, and that was it.

Consequences and rewards need to be short term at this age. We always use telling a story or a sticker or high five even.

Yeah, they always put on their coat when it was needed.

And I learned as well when they needed a coat. DS simply runs considerably warmer than I realised. Even now in his 20s he’s considering a jumper when others have coats.

Oh Gosh, people are so awful to you on this, OP. I understand what you mean - you tried to explain what works for you and he left in a huff.

@CoraLdn :
a) people aren't being horrible. They're just saying that they disagree with what OP did. And...
b) she didn't explain what works for her, she directly bribed the child without any discussion with her DH.

He was taking her. Leave to him.
Dont get involved. Stay clear. Why were you involved with the exit at all?

When you take her do as you wish.

For nursery/primary school age, if it’s pouring with rain they put on a waterproof of some kind because the consequence of them getting soaked on the way to school lasts all day, or someone has to sort them out with dry stuff, neither of which is reasonable. Once they go to secondary school it’s completely their choice and their problem.

If it’s cold but dry it’s up to them if they want a coat. We don’t live in Siberia and being a bit chilly for the twenty minute walk to school won’t hurt them. One kid usually wears one, the other almost never does - they just genuinely run very hot. Interestingly the one that refuses coats is far less prone to respiratory illnesses.

Op its not worth fighting over coats. DS now carries one in his bag, rarely wears it.

Thank you - you’ve done your research here 😊

If it were an isolated issue, I could ignore it. However, the angry way he speaks to me is part of a much bigger picture, but he fails to see it as such. I’m currently going through a lot currently (medical investigation, working in an environment that is not physically safe, as well as being the main earner). I’m exhausted and sometimes my judgement is clouded - that’s why I need a sense check here from time to time. You made some good points for the longer term here.

PS. You’re right - my mum is fab.

1. If you start with bribery as a toddler you are creating an absolute nightmare for yourself.
2. For consequences and rewards for toddlers, they need to be related and immediate. So “put your coat on now, and we will have time to walk past the house with the friendly dog” would work, but “put your coat on now for ice cream later” does not. Or “you threw the duplo at mummy so we are putting it away and not playing with it anymore” works, but “you threw the duplo at mummy so we aren’t going swimming next Thursday” doesn’t.

I often have to trick DS into doing anything, otherwise we’d never get out the door… I’m always telling DH about my ingenious “ways”. He simply asks / tells DS, and wonders why it always descends into battle! I’m with you on the little mind switches that work. DH says I’m “telling him what to do” when I’m actually saying “this is how our child works”. It would make his life easier… Both of them having a meltdown is such an avoidable situation.

Wearing a coat is not a hill I would choose to die on. She'll cooperate when she is cold. I can see that you were trying to help but let him take care of it next time.

If I say put your coat on to one of my kids, the coat is going on. There is no backtracking, bribery or anything else. The coat goes on. That is why my kids know that I mean what I say. That creates trust.

Some of you parents need to get a backbone and realise that you are the adult. Kids in the fucking park in the middle of winter in a tutu and vest because that's what they want to wear, ridiculous. It's like you're scared of your own 3 year olds.

I think promising the reward of ice cream much later in the day for putting their coat on now is an ineffective way to set up reward-based behaviour. A toddler cannot connect something they do now with something that happens at 5pm. If she didn't comply with the coat wearing, then it would be unfair and not age-appropriate to deprive her of the ice cream later. If she is being difficult in the moment about the coat, then it's also bordering on bribery to lure her to put on her coat so she'll get ice cream later – that's not great.

Better that you simply allow her to not put on her coat and experience the direct consequence of being cold so she asked to put it on. And if she's not cold, then why does she need to put it on?

The division of labour between you and your DH notwithstanding, I agree with him that the ice cream trick isn't great, and I wouldn't want my partner to parent like this either.