Pulled DD like she pulled DS

[amiwrong10]

DD3 has this thing that when she gets tired or overexcited, she starts pulling DS1 about by his clothes.

I’ve tried talking to her, I’ve tried shouting, I’ve tried physically pulling her off him and telling her why she’s not to do it.

He starts getting upset and she’s rubbing her head all over his, pushing him down whilst he’s crawling, yanking at his clothes. She’s lovely to him 90% of the time but she pushed him down and he bent his wrist back and was screaming last week when she did this.

After preschool, she did it again and I saw red when she wasn’t listening, DS was crying so I pulled at her top and leggings like she was at him until she got upset too (I didn’t hurt her, her arm come out of her top and one leg of her leggings was off) now I feel awful and like the worst Mum in the world but it made her stop.

I obviously don’t want to do that again so any other advice would be good.

She gets so much 1-1 time from both parents from swimming to cuddling up reading a story, gymnastics, I make sure I take just her to the park once a week so she’s got my full attention.

DH is away on a course for a week, I’m 4 days in and 2 more nights to go and I’m bloody exhausted 😵‍💫

You have identified she does it when she is tired or overwhelmed so you need to have a plan in place for when that happens. I would have somewhere quiet she can go for a chill out time - a giant beanbag with some books close by so something, somewhere she is seperate from her brother.

although I get why you did it it’s not a long term solution to help her regulate when she is feeling out of sorts so you need to help her find ways to remove herself and rest/calm.

When she does it, move her away, very firm (but not raised) voice 'we don't pull at baby's clothes, it hurts him'. Then find every opportunity you can to praise and big her up whenever you catch her playing nicely with him 'Oh DD you helped baby with that toy so nicely and gently, what a kind big girl you are'.

She's very little and she makes mistakes, and she's too young to totally understand the effect of her actions on others, she's not developmentally old enough to actually put herself in another person's shoes. But ultimately children want to please and receive praise and attention for being good.

I'd also do your best to pre empt the situation (hard I know !). You say she does it when she is tired or over excited, so there's an element of predictability. After pre school, or near bed time or whenever seems the most likely, I'd be using distraction - getting her settled with a quiet activity, reading to her, giving her some colouring etc before she goes into silly mode. Failing that I'd simply separate them, pick the baby up when you are on your own so he is out of her reach, or when your partner is home he takes one of the children into a different room until she has calmed down.

Firmer boundaries is what she needs, not the adult modelling the exact behaviour you want her to stop.

It's hard but each and every time she starts, you need to physically remove her or your 1 year old. There's also nothing wrong with using an assertive raised voice - that's not being a "shouty mum".

For fucks sake, of course OP knows it wasn't the right thing to do. She feels badly and is on here looking for support in navigating a hard week with two infants.

Gotta ask are you impeccable in all aspects of your life?

The problem is lots of pps telling her it WAS the right thing to do. As though it was the correct, optimal thing.

Firmly say STOP in a loud voice and remove her from the situation and say NO very clearly and firmly to her. The less words you say to her the more she will take in the ones you do actually say to her. Calmly and firmly remove her from her brother each and every time with the stop and no until she gets the message

This sounds like a good outcome. Well done.

When I was about 5 my 3 year old brother wouldn't stop biting me. It got to the point he was taking chunks out of me, my mother tried everything to get him to stop (probably including hitting him, this was the early 70s). Nothing worked and she was getting really fed up with it, until one day he bit my back badly (I still have the scar). She saw red, and without thinking, raised his arm and bit it.

He never did it again. Later years the three of us used to laugh about it - and I always had to show him the scar.

And it's for OP to decipher good advice, of which she received lots! Saying the OP's actions were nasty, awful and that this poster was stunned by them really is kicking someone when they're down.

Not quite the same but similar my 3 year old used to kick or hit me. Even after telling him off he would do it again. The only thing that worked was to take him to a different room and say mummy won’t play you if you kick me. That worked

My go to punishment was always time-out facing the wall for 1 minute for every year. So put your daughter in time-out for 3 minutes. Tell her to think about what she did wrong. After 3 minutes, calmly tell her why you put her in time-out and ask for an apology. Then hug.

Do this every time she hurts her brother, she’ll soon stop.

That was a very good way to get through to her how her bad behaviour wiuld feel to her siblibg. You didn't hurt her, you taught her a lesson. That is brilliant parenting (and brilliant parently often involves making yourself unpopular).

Let's hope the lesson sticks.

Good plan! Whip
her up and move her every time she does it. A bit of pulling won’t have hurt her - she’ll understand better what she’s doing.

You’re fine OP and no doubt she will have learned. But this isn’t the best example. Everyone knows the normal rules don’t apply to siblings. The whole purpose of being the oldest is being able to put your younger sibling in a wheely bin and push them down the drive, but defend them to the death if anyone else comes near them.

Don’t be hard on yourself op. You didn’t hurt her, she needed to stop and shouting wasn’t working. You’re human and it did stop her.

This reminds me a bit of my friend. She is literally the biggest and best earth mother I have ever known. She has 3 children and is so patient and gentle. Far more so than me and I only have 1 child. Anyway, her son was banging his head on her continually for ages and screaming “why not” and she said when he lifted his face up, she gave a short sharp slap on his cheek. She said they both just stopped still in shock and stared at each other. Never done it since and nothing like that to her other children. She just said she needed him to stop and nothing was working! I was so shocked when she was telling me as it’s so so unlike her! He’s 15 and still jokes about now and he’s the most lovely and loved teen ever.

Go easy on yourself!

You lost control and you behaved in a way you regret towards her. Parents do lose control sometimes, so I'm not condemning you at all, but in your shoes, I'd be concerned that you were rough with her... yes, you didn't hit her but you did physically pull at her. I'm saying this not to get at you, but just because it is a concern to flag with yourself.

I've behaved in a similar way twice to my older child, and both times it was motivated by stress. Once I grabbed his arm and pulled him roughly out of a corner because he was refusing to get dressed for nursery and I had a work meeting I couldn't be late for. The second time, he was stamping on flowers in the park and I saw red and grabbed him much harder than I had to in order to prevent the behaviour. In both cases, it was a shock to me that I could lose it and treat my child like that, and it did make me reflect a bit.

Parents aren't perfect and sometimes we do get it wrong so I wouldn't beat yourself up about it, but I think it's important to identify this as what is is... loss of temper... rather than effective discipline. And think about ways you can avoid getting so wound up by your DD going forward, although it is very difficult sometimes.

Yeah, the normal rules 'don't push or hit' and 'no physical contact' don't really apply between siblings and that's both good and bad. Mine quite enjoy a bout of wrestling or a sneaky slapping match, but it does go too far sometimes. It will be easier when the little one is bigger and can give as good as he gets.

Does she help DS eat? Does she get chance to look after the baby at home?

She clearly sees DS and baby Jude separately, and sounds more protective over baby Jude … could you try to foster that relationship with DS? Sort of like he’s her baby to look after too?

I’d pick her up and sit her in a corner or on the bottom step for a pre agreed period of time (usually a minute per year of age) while telling her firmly no and what the consequence is. You will have to watch over her but it worked well for us in a similar situation, albeit many years ago.

My mum (child no 3) had 3 brothers, and she quickly learned to defend herself. The basic rule seems to be you can torture your siblings as much as you like without causing permanent injury or an A&E trip, but if anyone else attempts the same, watch out!

I think the key is 'after pre-school'. She's knackered. She needs a snack and some quiet time where she is unbothered by more babies.

Genuinely, this sounds like pretty normal sibling rivalry to me.
She's still little herself and probably realised little brother is here to stay and he's a bit of a pain in the ass now he's mobile and into everything! Plus it sounds like she's tired after pre-school.
I'd also be a bit cautious about the pre-school leader encouraging her to help with her baby...you don't want DD parentified and having to be mother hen at such a tender age.. she needs to be able to free play and mix with others, rather than the expectation of 'mothering' a younger one?

I am in my 70th year, so was allowed to deliver a smack when needed.

Where "smack" was a light tap to the hand or the bum or leg and did no harm, but reminded the kid of the fact that you had strength on your side.

This is nothing to be proud of. I'm glad times have changed. And reminding someone that big people can hurt little people is a really stupid idea given that the larger child is currently hurting/annoying the smaller child.

I think you need to find her triggers to stop it before it happens. Move her. Or find a redirection …. Can she pull/drag/push some sofa cushions or something to get the energy out ?