Christa Pikes is awake and ‘talking’

[wouldntyouwanthelp]

She’s out of the coma and talking to her lawyers. Aibu to think the state of Tennessee can’t possibly try to do the lethal injection again ? Surely not? People on Reddit are suggesting she might need an amputation of one of her arms because of how caustic pentobarbital is.

Christa Pike 'conscious and speaking at hospital' after failed execution in US
https://news.sky.com/share/13595950

This is exactly my position: it's wrong for any individual or organisation to take a life, save for in extreme extenuating circumstances, eg self defence or in defence of the state in a war situation.

How can a state say "Killing people is wrong..." and then follow it up with "so we're going to kill you because you killed." That's not justice, it's retribution.

A quick google would tell you that more than 200 death row inmates have been exonerated since 1973. Many in the last 10 years

Cameron willingham was executed in 2004 and subsequently found innocent- and that was just the first google result. DNA evidence was available then.
Maybe check your facts.

What date, approximately, do you believe wrongful convictions became impossible, and do you watch the news at all?

Below their level? So if we hang them, we become worse, Than a man who deliberately picked up young kids and sexually abused them and then murdered them and buried them, and got his GF to take pictures posing on their graves? we become worse than the couple who sexually abused and physically abused their own flesh and blood and tortured young women who again they randomly picked up off the street to then finally strangle them and some mutilate their bodies and bury them in the garden under the patio or in the basement? Below the level of Harold shipman who was a man who was trusted by his patients, a GP also who loved the thought of being able to choose whether someone died or not and used his medical expertise to do this and kill 100’s of innocent people, below the level of a man who preyed on vulnerable children, who sexually assaulted and abused before killing them and dumping their bodies?

I’m sorry how does hanging them make us below their levels?

I think you can argue that the authorities made no attempt to carry out the execution to the best of their abilities. They had already had a botched execution earlier that year.

There was a very good chance that this execution would fail too. Which was why Christa's team requested an IV. as she knew her veins would not be good enough. Also I think that they are allowed four attempts at injecting the substance, but they only had two available.

The authorities have a commitment to do their job to the best of their abilities. This wasn't just a fluke failure. Nothing was done properly. There has to be some legal recourse surely.

You said that subjecting Pike to repeated botched attempts at execution was making her suffer like she made her victim suffer.

So yes, that would be the state reducing its behaviour to the behaviour of someone who tortured and killed her victim. But without the mitigating factors of having suffered a lifetime of sexual and physical abuse, FAS, and being 18 years old at the time of the crime.

Tell me you know nothing about UK sentencing policy without using those words ...

But that’s what people are doing, using her age, childhood and other things as an excuse.

The “eye for an eye” justification from a religious (or, at least, Christian) standpoint is ludicrous. The bible literally quotes Jesus countering that teaching.

Matthew 5:38-48 New International Version
Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighborb] and hate your enemy.’44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205%3A38-48&version=NIV

Earlier in the thread I mentioned Christians. The ones who do the forgiving. Because if an execution is being done in their name, then surely, it will be a stain on their soul? Or at least they will consider it to be.

If they believe their eternal salvation depends on living as per they think Jesus told them to, then how much demonstrating etc do they need to do to clean themselves ?

OK, fair enough, they can personally forgive, but if they then vote for pro death penalty politicians, then I would imagine that goes in the ledger, as per their beliefs.

In a strange way, it is an attack on their religious freedom.

As for the OT Christians, they should maybe sit down with the NT ones and have a chat about what a "real Christian" is.

Do you know what. Your right. Someone’s childhood trauma, upbringing and age etc is the reason they become torturing murderers and it should be excused because of this.

Mhmmm that potentially qualifies, I imagine.

However.. curious.. do two wrongs make a right?

For example - I don't agree that evidence in a case should be thrown out just because e.g. it was obtained without a warrant. I think whoever broke the law should be sent to prison / fired (depending on severity, so planting evidence vs just not waiting for approval) and criminals shouldn't get off on a technicality. If you prove you can't be trusted to do the job, you're fired from the force immediately but may need prison time if it was really bad like everyone who set up Steven Avery.

The people who were responsible for this should be punished, obviously. But I don't see why this woman's victims should suffer or why her original sentence shouldn't be carried out. "I sentence you to execution unless our staff prove to be incompetent and then you'll spend life in prison instead"... That isn't right.

The arguments I'm reading make sense for campaigning to ban executions. They don't explain why this one particular should be stopped. Feels more like an attempt to save her with some valid concerns about executions in general, rather than follow fairness, logic, or law in this particular instance.

That's an even more absurd argument. She did not know she would spend 30 years on death row in virtual solitary confinement, and she certainly didn't know she would be the victim of a botched execution. Sure, she presumably knew she might get the death penalty, but that doesn't make it the right one. If that argument worked, we would still be using that penalty for stealing bread.

The entire history of US homicides since they reintroduced the death penalty conclusively proves that it is no deterrent.

No one is arguing that Pike should have been "excused". The sentence was inappropriate due to her age and background. That doesn't mean anyone believes she should not have been punished at all.

I had a tooth out under general anaesthetic. It felt like battery acid was going up my arm, then I fell asleep. I wonder if it felt like that?

Not an excuse, as mitigating factors. Look, you clearly understand what people are saying, you just want her executed and are happy for it to be as drawn out and tortuous as it takes. I think that's a sign of someone with psychopathic levels of sadism, but you see yourself as a beacon of morality. A moral person would not want to see someone who was 10 at the time of their crime executed.

Hard isn't it. We need to work on that to prevent it as a society but we still can't have those people in society.

I don't agree with executions but I would prefer that over life in prison. I think life in prison is so much more cruel and unusual as a punishment so no clue why anyone campaigns for it. Could be the same people who campaign against abortions but don't get involved with adoption agencies, children's homes or provide any support to kids in care / care leavers while growing up.

Nor is having a horrific upbringing justify you becoming a torturing murder.

Hilarious response given that the poster was basically quoting you.

@RedTagAlan As for the OT Christians, they should maybe sit down with the NT ones and have a chat about what a "real Christian" is.
There is no such person as an "Old Testament Christian".
Anyone who relies solely on the OT is in fact Jewish.
So I would be careful with your posts, because you are getting very close to creating antisemitic comments.
In any event, you should stop telling anyone how to practice their particular religion.

Is there anyone, anywhere, who says she doesn't deserve punishment? The simple issue is what that punishment should be.

I didn’t say she was mystic Meg.

I said she knew the consequences of torturing and murdering someone. Everyone knows what happens when you do that, the minimum is life in prison. In America in certain states death penalty. Yes of course she wouldn’t have known about 30 years in solitary confinement and her having a failed execution not once but twice. I never said she was mystic Meg and knew all this was upon her did I? But she would have known the very basics of what happens when you commit such a crime.

It's very sobering to read about lethal injection in the US. Pentobarbitol is a caustic drug that needs slow introduction int ot the line to allow the body to adjust, otherwise you might as well inject caustic acid into someone's veins. The caustic effect on the lungs causes them to fill with fluid, to the person being executed dies by slow asphyxiation before the sedative effects take place. Other systems allow imporperly anaethsetises people to become aware as a paralysing agent is injected, meaning they, too, suffer slow asphyxiation, followed by excruciating pain the drug that induces cardiac arrest is also extremely caustic. These drugs are sourced from dubious companies (sometimes ones that are effectively illegal) and administered by untrained people.

She committed a terrible crime, but she was a severely abused 18-year-old who cried for her mother when she was sentenced. She has been kept in solitary confinement for much of her life and has now been the victim of state sanctioned torture. She has been severely punished. Nothing will bring her victim back. They should free her, though I don't know how she would cope with life outside prison - it's all she's known for most of her life.

Well I can't put my point any clearer. I don't support the death penalty however if it is in place I believe that the the state have a right and duty to carry it out correctly with minimal pain and distress to the criminal. Every human being ( like it or not) has rights.

If they don't attempt to execute her again she isn't "getting off" her sentence would be carried out in a different way.