Are you neurodivergent?

[fintangel]

Have you been diagnosed with, or do you suspect you might have ADHD or ASD or a combination or both?

YABU = yes
YANBU = no, I’m definitely neurotypical

This is an exaggeration ….. I did not say they might have meant something entirely different. I made a slightly different but equally logical guess as an alternative to your assumption. The nuances make a difffeeence. I was pointing out that you are making assumptions. In fact she does later state ‘no identity here’ - whatever that means.

We wil have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying that poster definitely meant what I'm suggesting but I do believe my interpretation of what they wrote is by far the most obvious interpretation. This is especially true because I was emphasising that specifically the diagnosis shouldn't form part of one's identity, not the traits or experiences. Her response was in that context so it wouldn't make sense that she would be so angry but basically he agreeing with me. Her whole argument was that it could be part of her identity if she chose it to be.

The Natuobal Autistic Society does think that an autism assessment may reduce suicide risk.

“Getting an assessment shouldn’t be this hard. Waiting this long puts people at risk. A new report from Bournemouth University highlights that quick access to diagnoses is needed to reduce the risk of suicide. The report included 4,000 responses, from autistic people who had suicidal thoughts and families/carers bereaved by the suicide of an autistic person, and shows how crucial a diagnosis and tailored support is for autistic people.”

https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/news/over-254k-face-waits-for-autism-assessment

The National Autistic Society has a clear vested interest in pushing this narrative in the same way that Mermaids had a vested interest in pushing the link between suicide and restricting access to medical transitioning for young people. This was also backed by studies that apparently showed that transitioning lowered suicide ideation scientific distress. This is hugely controversial though and it has opened up a huge can of worms regarding how studies like this are undertaken and the methodologies used. There are very limited studies that link suicide specifically to being undiagnosed and the statistics show that suicide rates are hugely elevated in the diagnosed population, especially amongst women.

I just wanted to add that it's important we question the premise of this argument anyway. If handing out diagnoses to people was definitively proven to reduce suicide then what's to stop us assigning them to anyone that is struggling with any ND traits and this is fueling suicidal thoughts? Would we do the same with physical conditions? Diagnose someone with cancer because it made them feel less suicidal?

Because you seem to think how ADHD presents in women and girls should be ignored for some reason. And that now that the other 50% of the population are included in the diagnosis process it’s a problem. Women and girls suffering in science, untreated or supported and in ignorance is apparently preferable. Women and girls have been proven to mask ADHD and present less noticeably and were previously easily overlooked with catastrophic outcomes. Utterly bizarre that you think we should ignore better knowledge and punt women back out of the diagnosis process when we know the huge financial impact and strain undiagnosed ADHD has on the country as a whole. .

The data from this thread will be skewed because ND people will be more likely to click on it.

It’s not just the NAS, it’s well known within NHS MH services.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2xz7vledzo

Diagnosis was crucial for my dc hence the NHS pushing for it so hard.

Timely diagnosis can help reduce suicide risk by opening the door to tailored mental health support and understanding. Receiving an autism diagnosis often replaces a lifelong feeling of being "broken," "defective," or failing to fit in with clear self-understanding. A formal diagnosis makes it easier to access specialised mental health care, accommodations, and autism-informed talking therapies.Timely support can lower the risk of developing secondary depression, chronic burnout, and severe social isolation. Late-diagnosed adults and those facing years-long assessment waiting lists experience severe hopelessness, exhaustion, and high rates of suicidal ideation (exceeding 60% in some late-diagnosed groups).

I don't think it should be ignored in women and girls. You are insistent I do think this but I absolutely haven't stated this or implied it.

You are misrepresenting science. DSM t reflects one approach to diagnosis but there are many that could be implemented that have just as much scientific backing. I referenced upthread that the British Psychological Society has huge concerns amongst many others. This wouldn't be true if all this 'better' knowledge was out there.

I must be. I read AIBU 😁

The BPS was involved in the NHS ADHD taskforce. They’ve moved on. Maybe read it and update yourself.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/report-of-the-independent-adhd-taskforce-part-1/

This is the same Bournemouth University study reference by NAS. This relies on self reporting from a self selecting group regarding an emotive subject. This is generally considered problematic as self reporting is notoriously unreliable and as many have suggested on this exact thread, relying on self selecting groups is likely to produce inaccurate results.

The BPS's position hasn't fundamentally changed regarding DSM 5. They are a reputable body so of course will be asked to form part of a taskforce. Being part of a taskforce doesn't mean you endorse current practice. That's not how it works.

To be honest you seem to have a clear vested interest in pushing an anti-autism and ADHD narritive! The NAS is at least basing their hypothesis on a study of 4000 people by the University of Bournemouth.

Whatever, the BPS continuously provided research to the taskforce and parallel government reviews regarding the risks of unsupported ADHD, noting the severe social impacts (such as high rates of undiagnosed ADHD in the justice system and among older adults in standard mental health services.

This!

Yes diagnosed with Autism, Adhd and OCD.

I'm not anti Autism or ADHD. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am very sceptical about the broadening of the criteria and I am totally against the binary approach to diagnosis and ND/NT in general.

Wanting a rigourous and accurate diagnosis process does not make you anti a condition. Again, would people be suggesting this if we were talking about cancer? If there was a number of experts and professional bodies expressing concerns, would it be so controversial to express concerns too?

I have mentioned why the BU study has issues in the same way that many of the gender transitioning studies had similar flaws. There is a growing acceptance now that these kind of studies have significant limitations that even the researchers accept. Even if their hypothesis was found to be true then what would this mean anyway? Should thresholds for neurodevelopmental disorders be set based on suicide rates? Where does all this end?

I'm autistic and suspect I also have ADHD. Both my children are autistic and I suspect many other family members are too.

Do stop being dramatic. Women and girls are happy they’ve finally been let into the diagnosis process, you’re not. Tough.

You are just saying the same thing over and over again at this point. Why are you so bothered about it?

The diagnostic criteria for ADHd and autism are evidence-based and there is substantial research behind them. There are of course legitimate debates around them.

The usual media narrative it to present the broadening of the diagnostic criteria as evidence of overdiafnosis. This logic does not hold up when you know the reason for the broadening is the increased scientific understanding of both conditions.

What specific evidence do you disagree with?

You're right. It is a waste of time debating this on here. It's too emotive for people and they don't seem to understand the actual science sufficiently.

The Peter Fenaghy review is out today. Interesting reading and will hopefully drive change.

The change needed is better access to NHS diagnosis and greater regulation of the private sector which they recognise and families want.I’m interested in some of what they say and want to read the entire final document not just the interim report as headlines are often seized on and manipulated with important details ignored. Can only see the interim report.

Apparently those with higher needs should have earlier access which is great as my children were children who were eventually fast tracked through the NHS for diagnosis due to threat to life. This happened too late though and I am concerned they would be overlooked even more so if only those with more disruptive outwardly evidenced difficulties are prioritised. What I am wondering is what happens to those( often academically coping girls )who are quietly struggling, internalising and sinking into catastrophic mental illness. They won’t be fast tracked when quietly coping ( on the surface)and just about scraping through school without diagnoses for autism and adhd. When they succumb to the intense pressures and entrenched MH it becomes a game of catch up which can often be too late. This happened to my dc and paeds wards are full of them. Our NHS psych told us my dc’s severe mental illness was caused by being an Audhd child undiagnosed. Every day being berated in school for untidiness, inability to sit still or focus, relationship difficulties and a host of other negative impacts on her life lead to severe self hatred , overwhelm and mental illness that was subsequently harder to treat. Diagnosis was life changing and has helped treatment massively as professionals said it would.

If she’d been diagnosed earlier she wouldn’t have become so ill( multiple NHS professionals told us this)but would she be a child identified as a child for earlier diagnosis when her difficulties earlier on were less visible or problematic for others. Basically are we going to see children with autism and ADHD( and more likely women and girls) not just left to get worse before treatment and support as happens now but even more so?

He supports a needs-first rather than diagnosis-first model. Early support and intervention should be available before a diagnosis. This should stop some people's traits becoming exacerbated to the point where they need a diagnosis. A diagnosis would still be required for some cases but this wouldn't be used as a gatekeeping tool for support.

I broadly agree with everything that he has included in his report.

But if need is missed because of a lack of diagnosis ie professional wait until support needs are so severe, more visible and harder to treat how is that helpful?Women and girls will be most at risk from this. The report actually highlights that in most cases a diagnosis has a positive impact.