AIBU to reconsider a long friendship over support for education tax?

[CoconutRumcake]

A close friend of over 15 years last night unashamedly said she supported the children’s education tax. To put this in context, she is godmother to my ds and has seen first hand what damage this has done to children and families as well as her own sister losing her job when the school closed. She had maybe drank too much and has apologised over text this morning, but I really can’t shake the feeling that I don’t want to be around her.
AIBU -try and move past it
YANBU -it’s run it’s time

I have very low tolerance towards people who are spiteful towards children, especially my children.

The OP's reading comprehension is woeful.

I haven’t heard of this children’s education tax. Are all schools taxed or just private ones?

Please explain OP.

why has it hurt your children?
what are the people close to your friend going through?
what is wicked?

If Labour bring us back to EU (which I'd love), I wonder how they are going to save the face... EU bans tax on education

But she isn't being spiteful to your children, she believes something which a great deal of people also do, yet you are holding it against her.
You are refusing to consider any other perspective on this argument and it's unhealthy to be unable to critically analyse anything in this manner in which you have presented yourself throughout this thread.

I don't think Labour will care. Plenty of their MPs (despite this being completely against their socialist principles) manage to make the exception for their own children and pay for their education.

Well, she’s not wrong, is she? The schools have just had their charitable status removed, and let’s face it, private schools really couldn’t be described as charities, could they? I know they give out a few bursaries to the talented plebs but surely if you can pay £20k-£30k+ pa for education you hardly fall into a demographic that requires ‘charity’.

Many private schools are still charities.

That’s how you sell it to the posh Brexitty types 😁

Well I grew up in a mainly conservative gvt (despised by my family actually), and as an adult I see Labour destroying ambition and social mobility.

My parents went to grammar schools (modern ones a Conservative initiative) which enabled them to get professional jobs and be educated enough to educate us, even though we had to go to shit comps (as Labour had started closing the grammars). I give my parents credit for the fact I became successful, and they went to grammar school despite being working class.

There is loads of evidence to 'support that claim' - it's in the history books and it is happening today, sadly.

Well that is admirable, and I do agree. But in this case, I think there might be a bit of ignorance around this topic. I know I assumed private school made profits. It appears they don’t. And I honestly think you’d be better off gently educating your friend on the facts than cutting her off entirely.

It’s an unattractive trait to not accept apology.

It’s up to you though. I can’t really understand why you need to ask us if you are unreasonable or not as I’m pretty sure you have a very strong opinion that will not bend. And that is fine.

I thought it was only 50% of private schools that were non profit - weren’t these the ones actually having genuine charity status ?

"Sorry I asked you to leave me at the bus shelter, I just needed a wee seat" said my friend to one of her friends while three sheets to the wind.

Wouldn't move. Needed a "wee rest" at 1.30 am. 😂

Name and shame please?

I'm under impression that one of the reasons it was the first policy they implemented when they got into power, and with immediate effect, is because they can't send their children to private schools for political reasons, even though they can pay for it, so they wanted to destroy the system for the rest. Also most of Labour MPs send their children to outstanding state schools where catchment areas attract higher house prices, so this policy benefits them in this way.

The fact that you use the word 'plebs' reveals that you have far more prejudice and (inverted) snobbery than the people you are attacking. In 20 years working in the private sector, in the non Eton type of school, not a single parent, teacher or kid has ever expressed that sentiment. Not one has said thats why theyre paying. To escape bullying yes. To escape a violent, disruptive classroom yes, but purely to mix with 'better people", no. Its the kind of thing that most in favour of the policy with little or no direct experience of this sector think is the case. The vicious comments over the last few years in the media about 'poor little Arabella / Sebastian' would never ever be tolerated if it was directed at a stereotype other than a perceived wealthy one.

As to affordability..outside of the south East, one child's fees are in fact less than one person's full time average income, so if you have two household incomes of say 40k and make sensible housing choices, its possible. 40k is not remotely wealthy or unachievable. Fees roughly 25k so yes it wipes out one income but still possible by ordinary people.

How is it spiteful to your children to support the removal of charitable status and introduction of VAT on private schooling?
I support it.

It’s like saying that because people have to pay VAT on caviar and chocolate that is a “tax on food”

You will be pleased to know that while chocolate is taxed at 20% caviar is not taxed or rather it's taxed at 0% because it is food.

Is the new friendship test having opinions in sync with one another now? Jeez-am glad I’m old when friendship was based on enjoying each other’s company, having fun and lively debate and support in hard times. Jeez.

It’s a tax on children’s education and vocational training, I’ve posted the link several times and at this point don’t know how else to be clearer. Is the problem because I didn’t specifically say non government funded education and vocational training for children?

There is loads of evidence to 'support that claim' - it's in the history books and it is happening today, sadly.

Okay, so you can't point me towards the loads of evidence

Not all is lost, I can point you towards this report, produced under the previous government in 2022

"The total rate has remained stable: “men and women who were born in the 1980s are no less likely to have moved to different class positions to those of their parents than men and women who were born at any time earlier in the 20th century...."

There are now fewer people at the bottom of the social ladder to make big leaps in social status, and more people starting life higher up, with less room to climb. Together, these changes mean that, although the total mobility rate has stayed the same, younger generations of men and women are more likely to experience downward mobility and less likely to experience upward mobility than their parents or grandparents. The surplus of upward over downward, though, is still positive. It had declined to 14 points in the youngest cohort, born in the 1970s"

There's also this discourse The Limits of ‘Opportunity’: Is There a Clear Labour or Conservative View of Social Mobility? - Maslen - 2024 - The Political Quarterly - Wiley Online Library on the different political views on mobility, note it discusses the conservative rigid, hierarchical gatekeeping on access to higher education via the 'elite pathway' into Oxbridge et al.

None of those references bear out what you've stated

Also, its inherently clear that true social mobility is contingent on the higher professional roles being available to move into in the first place - which is highly contingent on the long-term state of the economy, which has been in decline since 2008 and took a further hammering due to the Austerity loan we've all been paying from 2010.

Please add your thoughts on the above sources

The energy secretary Miatta Fahnbulleh for a start.

I also think it’s best to let the friendship drop. If I was your friend I’d be stepping away too because you are being very nasty about this. A tax break was removed that meant schools and parents who were just muddling through with making a profit/affording the fees couldn’t continue. And that was very hard. But other schools and teaching jobs are available. And it was a tax break not a philosophical right.

Many people are envious of others who have children in a private school. There could be anything zero taxed if society considers it important and fights for it.
Books are still not taxed. Wait until people find out that people who have more money, spend more money on books.
Privileged people, who choose to buy books, even though there are public libraries, how dare they! Rub in your face that after working and paying tax, they buy books!!!
Look at other countries where people pay tax on books! Like Russia for example! They still, have books, don't they?
People can justify any shit.
It's not like biscuits or granules sugar or soft drinks tasting bad because now are sweeteners in them are some kind of charitable things. You don't pay tax on those. Not good for people, contributes to pushing people towards ill health, but people would be in uproar if it would be taxed.

Sorry, I assumed you meant the massive university tuition fee increase of over 300% in 2012. Presumably, you felt equally strongly about this education tax.