To feel like my bro’s fiancée is being golddigger-like?

[worriedsstr]

My brother lives abroad and has done for a while. He met his fiancée there, they are getting married, and that is the country they will continue to live in after they get married.

My parents are planning to buy him a flat there. The laws in the country they live in / where the flat will be are such that, broadly speaking, anything you own before marriage isn’t divisible in a divorce, whereas anything bought, earned or gifted after marriage will considered marital property and divided. So, in very simple terms, if my parents buy my brother the flat before he gets married, it would remain his if they were ever to divorce. If they buy it after he gets married, it could potentially become a marital asset and be divided between them.

His fiancée has asked him to wait until they’re married before the flat is bought, because she wants to feel financially secure and wants half of the flat to be hers in the event of a divorce. My brother is completely happy to go along with this, so that’s where the situation currently stands.

I have to admit I’m quite concerned and I find the whole thing bizarre. I completely understand wanting financial security within a marriage, but I struggle with the idea of deliberately waiting until you’re married for a property that is being bought for one spouse by their parents, specifically because that means it could become divisible if they divorce. It’s a gift from HIS (our) parents to their son, it’s not something he has “earned” with her support or they’ve earned as a couple. They haven’t yet been told this but I know my parents will feel exactly the same way.

Maybe I’m looking at it completely the wrong way, but AIBU to think my parents should just buy their son the flat before he gets married, rather than waiting until afterwards when, under the laws of the country they will actually be living in, it could potentially become a marital asset?

I understand why you'd want your DB to keep the whole flat if they split. But how is it bizarre for her not to want to be turfed out of her home with no claim on it if that happens, especially if they've had kids?

He’s an adult and should buy his own flat and do what he wants with it, this situation has now led to everyone chipping in their opinion on his marriage.

@BMW58Yes, I sometimes call him on my way to work and we chatted about it today, he said he will call mum later in the day to discuss it with her. He knows she’s probably not going to be thrilled about it and that she most likely won’t agree to it.

I think he does recognise that it’s a bit cheeky of his fiancée, to be honest, but I also think he’s a bit blinded by love at the moment and has the whole “we’re never going to get divorced, so it doesn’t matter anyway” attitude. So I think he sees where we’re coming from, but just doesn’t really think it’s going to be an issue for them.

its not ‘family money’ it’s your parents cash. Do you think they lack competency?

is your brother an elderly woman who’s hooked up with a 20 year old waiter?

it’s none of your business- your behaviour around this if I were your relatives would make me wonder whether your sole motivation in everything was cash.

Why doesn't she buy her own why is a man a bank for woman, whether it is his money or his families why cant women be independent themselves

Also, if I were your future sister in law I’d be very low contact with you. And would expect support from my husband on that (and it would be your fault entirely btw)

Your parents are being completely unreasonable if they buy a home for your son and your son only, knowing his wife and their future grandchildren will live in it. What are they to them, tenants? If they can’t afford to buy this flat as a home for this family, they should give the money to their son in a non-shared family. Ask me how I know. A family home is first and foremost a home - then it’s a property investment second. It’s crucial not to get that in reverse.

Your parents are unreasonable and that’s pushed your SIL to be unreasonable. This is on your parents.

You sound a lot more interested in the cash than she does, disproportionately so considering you stand to lose nothing, while she risks possible homelessness with children one day.

You don't say how affordable it is for your parents, which is a key issue.

Presumably if your parents gift your brother a flat with pre-imposed conditions, he could still change the deed after he owns it so that it belongs half to his new wife.

So even if your parents did say no and bought it before he could still change it afterwards.

I think I would look on it as a gift to him. What he chooses to do with that gift (share half of it) is his business.

I would be more concerned with two things, one whether my parents would offer me the same gift - and then of course in that instance it would be my choice as to whether I would want to share it with someone else or not.

And two whether or not all this flat buying would put them in a precarious position for their own retirement.

@AgnesX
I don’t agree that being an adult means the people who love you should just stand back and say nothing. I think it’s absolutely my job to look out for my family. If my mum was being scammed, getting into a dangerous relationship, making a major financial decision that could leave her vulnerable, or doing something at work that could seriously disadvantage her, I’d tell her. I’d expect her to do exactly the same for me.
I’m not trying to make my brother’s decisions for him. He’s an adult and ultimately it’s his choice. But I’m his sister, I love him, and if I think he’s potentially putting himself in a vulnerable financial position, I’m going to say so.

You also have to move on from the mindset that your family = mum + dad + brother + sister. You’re welcoming a new member into your family. It’s a new relationship, on new grounds, but she is far and away the center of his world and will become more so if they have children. That’s right and normal.

Maybe your brother wants his spouse to feel secure in her home. Maybe he wants them to be equal partners without a power imbalance where he holds all the cards because he is the sole owner of their home. I'd expect any decent person would want that with the person they love. It doesn't mean the woman is a gold digger. Absolutely awful misogynistic term that's usually thrown around by bitter people who are envious.

We don't know why either of them isn't buying their own flat.

What we do know is they're going to live in this one. With that in mind, while I get why OP doesn't like it, DSIL2B certainly isn't being bizarre.

Bollocks. Ownership of a flat can be changed after however many years/children are born. Talking about who gets what before marrying the one paying for a flat is very suspicious unless the brother wants her to stay home and have 6 children.

@GasPanic
No, it wouldn’t put my parents in a precarious position in terms of being able to afford it, they could comfortably do this for both of their children. But it’s not something they could do for both children twice, if that makes sense, if, say, one of us divorced and lost half of it.
And I really don’t see my brother changing the ownership afterwards or going back on any conditions my parents put in place. He’s far too decent for that, and far too loyal to my parents.

What country is it?

As the mother of kids of both sexes who hopes to be able to gift substantial deposits when they are older I don’t get this at all. Why would you want the mother of your future grandkids to have no security of housing, not off to a great start is it?

No doubt these same parents will be complaining at 5 years that the DILs family get preferential treatment at Christmas etc.

YANUB - she hasn't contributed anything to this flat, but is expecting to own half of it. It would be different if it was a flat that they had jointly saved for, or contributed to in some way. What is her own financial situation? Does she expect your husband to provide for her fully after they are married?
I think your brother needs to be very careful here.

Agree that it's not your business to actually discuss with him, but I can understand your concerns.

I think the only people that need to be happy with the set up are your parents and your brother.

As for his fiancée's concerns, your brother should be able to allay they by pointing out that: he would support her using her income (that would otherwise have gone towards rent/mortgage) be used to either pay the mortgage on an investment property in her name/be invested elsewhere (her choice) AND that he would sign a legal agreement to the effect that he would not have any claim on this investment in the event of divorce; any money or assets received during the marriage from her family would also be outside his reach on divorce (again, legal agreement signed by him to this effect). He should also be prepared to consider her income if they have children together and make a decision that she takes any unpaid leave/reduces hours after return to work/does not return to work. This may involve him continuing to pay the same level of money into her investment.

She is being golddigging if she simply wants a share of the flat AND the full benefit of them not having to pay rent/mortgage AND to retain all her own assets. She is not a gold digger if she is concerned that the set up is not going to enable her to build an entitlement to a share in the family home.

@Somethinggg
not buying their own just because they’re being offered a much nicer standard of living than they could realistically afford themselves. Why would they choose to struggle on the outskirts, commute for ages and live in a tiny flat when they could live in a really lovely, very large apartment in the exact area they actually want to be in?

Why are you acting like his future wife is a scammer or dangerous in some way? I hope she runs for the hills to get away from your family.

Come on OP this is MN where a woman’s property is her own and her DH’s property is hers as well.

I agree with you.

This is the woman your brother loves and wants to marry , not a scammer of old people. It's not usual for a couple to marry and live in the family home for years with one of them having no rights.

Why should it provide her with security…the money for the flat isn’t hers? Why is her security dependent on him? This offer has come to him as a single (not yet married) man. What security does he owe her at that point, or to be precise - what security do his parents owe her? Once they are married they could both invest their own money in a separate property that they will have full rights to and she can be secure in her own right.

Personally I find it very grabby that she has asked this.

Getting married is inherently a financial vulnerable position for both parties, then having kids and one person potentially giving up their career also is. He has the options to not do those things, if he was concerned.
Again, devil is in the detail.