To stop my mum seeing my DS after what she said to him?

[MangoMusique]

NC because this is quite identifying. I’ve got ds who is 8 and dd who is 5, and my mum is their grandma. She has always been very involved with them and normally has them every other Saturday, sometimes picks them up from school and takes them out. They absolutely adore her and until now I’ve always thought of her as a really good grandma, even though she can be blunt sometimes. I’ve stopped her seeing them for now because of something she said directly to ds and I’m not sure if I’ve overreacted.

ds is 8, in year 4, loves football and gaming and is a quiet sensitive child. He’s doing fine at school really, not especially academic. He is bigger than some boys in his class and has put on a bit of weight recently, but he isn’t obese and isn’t under any weight management or medical care. I don’t want this to become a discussion about whether he technically needs to lose weight because that isn’t what I’m upset about. Me and dh encourage him to be active and we eat normal meals, with treats as well. He’s just an eight year old.

My mum is 62 and retired, lives about 20 minutes away and has always been there for me and us. She buys them little things, takes them swimming, to the park, shopping, whatever they fancy, they look forward to her weekends. She has helped me out a lot and the kids see her as important too. My dad died a few years ago and my brother lives abroad so there isn’t another grandparent nearby who could fill the gap. I’ve defended her before by saying she’s their grandma and she’s always been there, and tbh she genuinely has been loving and involved with them.

The problem is she has got increasingly interested in ds’s weight. She’s asked him why he always wants seconds, told him he needs to watch the biscuits and commented that his school trousers looked tight. She’s also compared him to slimmer cousins and asked me if he gets enough exercise. I have spoken to her privately and said please don’t talk about his weight in front of him. She says she’s only concerned because children don’t know when to stop, but she carries on making comments. Dh has noticed too but normally just says that’s your mum and doesn’t want a huge argument.

Last week ds came into the kitchen wearing his school jumper. He’d been asking me about getting a new football shirt because his old one was tight. Mum looked at him and said, “you don’t want to get any bigger, do you? You’ll end up like your dad.” He just laughed awkwardly and I didn’t make a thing of it. Later that same evening he quietly asked me if he was fat. I honestly felt sick because he hadn’t used that word about himself before. I asked him why and he said grandma had told him boys get fat if they eat too much rubbish and need to be careful.

I rang mum and asked what she thought she was doing. She said ds had misunderstood her, then said she was only trying to help him. She said I was being too sensitive and that if nobody tells children anything they’ll become unhealthy. I said there’s a difference between teaching healthy habits and making an eight year old think about whether his body is too big. She said I let him eat whatever he wants, which I disagree with that. We do have biscuits and sweets in the house, but he eats meals and he’s active. Mum said she was giving sensible advice.

It also isn’t just this one conversation, so I’m struggling to see it as harmless. There have been the comments about seconds, biscuits, his trousers and exercise, and she has said things like he eats like a grown man. I’ve told her before that I don’t want her discussing his weight with him and she had agreed, so she knew. Since last week ds has asked me if he should have dessert and asked whether his new football shirt I want to buy will make him look bigger. Maybe those are coincidence, but it feels like something he wasn’t worrying about before has got into his head.

I told mum she isn’t going to be seeing either child for now. She said I was being cruel and using the children to punish her, and she has told relatives that I’m keeping her grandchildren away over one harmless comment. I said it isn’t one harmless comment, it’s the final one after months of smaller comments that I had already asked her to stop making. I know that sounds dramatic because she hasn’t been a bad grandma in every other respect. She has actually been a very good one. But I’m angry, and I don’t trust myself to just carry on as normal.

Dh thinks mum was wrong but doesn’t think I should have stopped contact at this point. He thinks I should tell her she can see them again if she apologises to ds properly to ds and agrees she won’t talk about weight with him. Not sure. dd keeps asking when she can go to Grandma’s and I feel awful because she hasn’t done anything. The really awkward thing for me is ds himself says he still wants to see grandma. He loves her and still talks about going there. I haven’t made him choose sides at all. There really isn’t another nearby grandparent for them.

I don’t know if I’m protecting ds or letting my anger make this bigger than it needs to be. I don’t want him growing up worrying about his weight, especially at eight, and I had made the boundary clear. At the same time I don’t want to take away a relationship with a grandmother he loves because she said something badly, not deliberately. The children adore her. Maybe tbh I am being too sensitive. AIBU to stop my mum seeing both children after what she said to ds, even though she has always been a good grandma otherwise?

OP, I have 3 DCs. The eldest two were very chubby toddlers / preschoolers, huge appetites, ate anything and everything.

DC1 is now at 11 skinny as a rake. Hugely sporty and active and appetite has dropped off a cliff.

DC2 is according to the NHS BMI calculator a healthy weight, but at the 75 - 85% BMI percentile so towards the upper end. DC2 still has a big appetite, always finishes her food, always the last to leave the party food table. I won’t pretend her diet is ideal as we’re busy and we’re normal and we have crisps etc in the house, but it’s A LOT better than DC3’s diet (due to him being incredibly fussy) and he is as thin as a rake. Never had an inch of fat on him despite eating much less healthily than DC2, because of the very limited things he will eat. The difference between him and DC2 however is even if I present him with his favourite food, he just won’t eat that much.

So anyway, my longwinded point is, you’ll be judged on here by people who have children like my DC3 who have a far from ideal diet and are stick thin, and just won’t understand that a child can eat relatively healthily and carry extra weight. Until you have a child like that you cannot understand.

That’s not to say you shouldn’t try to do things so your DC grows into his weight, but believe me I know it’s not easy when you have an eater.

Oh and your mum is totally out of order mentioning his weight to him!

This whole trend of cutting people out to manage conflict is really damaging. It should be a last resort. Just tell her that she cannot comment on his weight at all because her last comment upset him. She sounds like an otherwise loving grandma and all this teaches your son is that people we love are highly disposable.

I have a friend who does this and has cut out so many people from her life that she has practically no one left. This has damaged rather than helped her mental health.

What I take from this thread is, it’s not Grandma’s role, business, whatever to comment on your children’s size. She has had her children, raised her children how she saw fit….her prerogative, these are NOT her children, they are yours!

Her role now is quite different. She’s overstepping, imo the role of a grandparent. If she was in loco parentis that’s different but she’s not, these children definitely have parents. If withholding yr children for a while and she is told why, hopefully she’ll hold her tongue.

"he said grandma had told him boys get fat if they eat too much rubbish and need to be careful."
AliceMcK, this is not* *"Body shaming". This is a concerned DGM, who has quite possibly has tried many times to discuss this with Op. She has decided to tackle this directly with the child since Mum is not doing anything about the situation.
It seems pretty obvious that she is acting out of concern for her DGS.
You have every right to have a different opinion about how to tackle difficulties with a child's weight. That doesn't make it okay to get into drama like yours. It doesn't help anyone.
Children are usually expected to follow rules, not grandparents. They are old enough and wise enough to decide for themselves what's the right thing to do. It's not really about respecting parents' wishes. It's about taking action when concerned.
Grandparents also are entitled to be respected.

Hi, OP's mum. 🙄

This is it in a nutshell. There are reasons to cut someone off - like serious abuse and neglect. Pointing out that your son is on the tubby side is not a reason to cut off an otherwise loving grandmother who has by your own admission done a lot for you over the years. No, it isn’t ideal and she needs to be more tactful but you too need to stop buying crap when you know full well that he has put on weight.

Oh please! He’s 8! Have you any idea how damaging passing comments like this can be to a child’s long term relationships with food and their body?! All this will do will encourage this poor lad to feel he needs to restrict his food, which more often than not leads to binge eating and the cycle continues. It is so so damaging to speak to young people in this way. There are ways to promote health that don’t involve encouraging an 8 year old to go on a bloody diet. The OP already said they encourage them to be active and eat a balanced diet.

Exactly. Only 6% of people with an eating disorder are under weight compared with over 50% who are overweight or obese.

People quickly forget that binge eating, compulsive eating and secrete eating are all eating disorders. And ages 8-13 are the highest risk ages due to their naturally changing body composition.

Id be very, very firm with grandma - mention it again and that's it.

It's totally out of order for your mum to keep raising this with DS, but it's a shame that you've got to the point where she's not able to see the children. Hopefully you can rectify this whilst insisting that she doesn't keep raising the weight issue.

My son did what i termed the Christmas Tree Effect when he was growing up. He would grow outwards and be a little chubby, and then he would grow upwards and be slim, and then outwards, then upwards - you get the picture. He is now 6'5" and really rather magnificent!

The only thing that i would be careful of is that you say that you keep biscuits and sweets in the house. I tended not to keep them in, but bought them when required.

I hope that some of this helps.

OP, the things your mum is saying are exactly the kind of things my MIL has been saying to my stepdaughter for years. My stepdaughter doesn't visit her now she's an adult. Your MIL's really not helping her relationship with her grandson.

Good on you for protecting your son, it's probably not a case for permanent NC, but personally I don't think a brief timeout is too egregious. It may even give her time to reflect, although probably not, going by what you've said.

Yabu. Your son is getting fat. This will create a lifetime of problems. Listen to your mother’s genuine concern and act on it. It’s well within your power to stop giving your son seconds and treats.

YABU. Your mum was wrong to talk to your son about his weight, but she has his best interests at heart. It sounds as if his dad may be overweight so maybe she has good cause to be worried about family eating habits.

You seem to think that your son eating sweets and biscuits is fine as long as he eats meals as well! Is your mum right that he eats adult portions? If so, you are not doing him any favours healthwise. If a child is being greedy it isn’t wrong to tell them so, and stop them eating more than their body needs.

You have over-reacted. Tell your mum firmly that she absolutely must not comment on his weight or size again. But think carefully about whether she may have a point, even if she went about it in the wrong way,

💯

The OP’s son’s self esteem is important, but it’s also important to address extra fat in boys before puberty. Fat is oestrogenic and lowers testosterone. There was a study I read last year that noted decreased penis size in men who were overweight as children. I can post it 🤷‍♀️.

(I was reading it because I’m a paediatrician 😀). Overweight boys can appear to have small genitals because of the suprapubic fat pad, but this article suggests that the metabolically active fat itself is also affecting normal development.

Really don’t agree with those saying ‘can’t comment until we know how heavy your son is’. The point is he’s your son and you set a boundary around this which she has ignored. I would be angry, too. But I think long term separation from a loved grandparent will cause damage, too.

In your place, I would see her for a coffee and explain he is now worried about his weight which is 100% inappropriate for an 8 year old. His eating habits are yours to shape, and if she has concerns she can speak to you not make snide comments to a child who could quickly develop negative body image from a loved one saying these things to them.

I would also have a talk with your son explaining the brief break in seeing grandma was due to your being very upset about how she was speaking to him as no one - even someone we really love - should make anyone feel bad about the shape of their body. She’s of a generation that worries a lot about being slim, but we now know healthy bodies come in all different sizes. If he’s eating healthy food and exercising and not eating too much sugar, he’s doing great no matter what his side.

Lose lose lose - your son loses (already missing gran and asking when he's next gong to see her); his gran loses out on spending time with grandchildren who adore her; and you lose by losing your nose (cutting off your nose to spite your face)

@MangoMusique

Given your information, your son's centile is 90, which suggests they are a healthy weight for their age, sex and height according to the NHS.

BMI for us all, is considered outdated by modern clinical standards. BMI regularly misclassifies children because it cannot differentiate between bone, muscle mass, and body fat.

The Waist-to-Height Ratio (WHtR) has emerged as a vastly superior, highly accurate, and inexpensive alternative for assessing a child's health.

What to do about your Mum though @MangoMusique?

It really is totally unacceptable that a loving grandma should be constantly addressing her historical issues around weight, with her 8 year old grandson.

Why would she even do that? To make him feel what exactly..... certainly not good about himself!

You must be so frustrated with her, so perhaps a couple of weeks without seeing the children may actually shock her and it shows her that you feel so strongly about it, that she has left you with no other choice but to limit contact, to protect your son's developing self-esteem.

It'll also be good for your son to see you are his protector, this article may show you, that you are totally on the right track @MangoMusique 🌸

Wheh he’s in assembly/outside with other kids with the other kids does he look fat?

Nope!

if grandmother is that concerned she speaks to the parents, no child in the history or man has been made better by being shamed, that’s not healthy

@MangoMusique i think people are missing the point. It’s not about your son’s weight or build. It’s about your mother repeatedly commenting and picking on something you’ve asked her not to, and as a result your 8 year old is showing concerns around his body that he wasn’t before.

I don’t think you’re unreasonable to be very very angry. I would have done the same as you in this situation.

It is not helpful of her at all, and until she sees that this ‘help’ is unwanted and now causing problems, she can stay away.

It’s your job to make sure he is healthy with a varied diet, of which treats etc should be included. Not hers, and certainly not something she should be talking to him about.

He’s at an age where he’s probably due a growth spurt anyhow, my son used to fill out then shoot up in height and look really slim then do the same again a few months later, I knew he was due a spurt when he was starving all of the time. Anyhow, testosterone kicks in a few years later and they change shape again.
obviously if you have concerns about his weight you’d be addressing them, it’s not your mums or the numerous busybody mumsnetters business.
the responses on this thread show the worst of mumsnet where based on no facts women start attacking women.
good luck OP.
in regards to your actual question, I think your mum should have the message now and would be inclined to let them resume seeing her after a conversation of how it’s your responsibility to protect their self esteem along with their general health, as such you can’t stand by and not address behaviour towards them that you do not agree with, so long as that is understood move forward

I reckon I've got a slightly different perspective on this to everyone else. My child is adopted - we adopted them at the age of 9 and they are now 11. They had been overweight all their life - they had food insecurity with their birth parents, often didn't know where their next meal was coming from but obesity can often be a disease of poverty and most of the food they had access to was of low nutritional value and calorie dense. So they were often hungry, yet overweight. And the years of being in care didn't help - better quality food (slightly) and more regular but they were very much overfed. Their birth mum was very overweight and their foster carer also overweight.

The point is, I 'inherited' a child with a complicated weight problem that was obviously "not my fault" (or theirs, of course). As soon as our child came home to us we made it our business to improve the position. I made sure they had plenty of food to eat all the time but - as others have suggested - discreetly controlled the nature of that food. We were lucky in that our child is not a picky eater so we could load up on fruit and veg. I adjusted all meals I cooked (and I cooked from scratch daily) to ensure they contained a lot of our child's favourite things whilst being very healthy. I've done a broad brush calculation of your child's BMI, OP, and I think our child was similar BMI when they came home to us (their BMI had reduced slightly in foster care to be that 'low') and in the first 18 months of coming home to us our chilld's BMI dropped into the top end of a normal weight and has been hovering there. It's a struggle to maintain our child's weight that 'low' and I think they will always have issues around food - understandably. The habits that are baked in by age 9 are going to persist, especially as they are interwoven with trauma and the meaning of love and nurturing (or not).

So - I have that experience.

Entirely independently I have a lifelong weight problem myself. Undiagnosed ADHD hasn't helped; nor did my own (very different to my child's) childhood trauma. My mum has a weight problem too, dieted regularly and put me on my first diet (the F plan!) when I was in my early teens. And so developed a lifetime of disordered eating. I've mostly managed to keep myself either just a healthy weight, or 'only' overweight and crucially I've kept myself very fit alongside that. But it's miserable. And by far the most miserable aspects are the shame and self-loathing that come alongside all of this which are created by society. I often wonder what I could have achieved in life had so much of my energy and headspace not been taken up with weight related issues. It's absolutely heartbreaking and so many people, especially women, suffer from this.

So I have so much sympathy for your position, OP. Your mum has done some things which I would view as unforgiveable but most respondents seem to think it's really minor. This is the problem - so does your mum. She thinks she's helping (but she clearly has serious issues herself given she seems incapable of restraining herself).

The problem is you're in a really difficult position. Were this a more distant relative I think I'd be definitely in the camp of - don't give them access to your child. But it's somebody close who loves your kids and they love her. Your son isn't stupid; sooner or later he'll start to blame himself in some way for them not seeing your mum, regardless of whether yuo tell him why - this is what kids do, it's part of the egocentricity of being a kid. My child blames themself for the breakdown of their birth family even though obviously it wasn't their fault.

So I think your mum has done real damage but unfortunately you are in danger of doing more and worse in the way you're handling it. I think the main thing you need to do is arrange to physically visit your mum without the kids as soon as possible, and talk it out with her. You owe it to everyone involved to try very hard indeed to land the point with your mum that she is doing real and active damage that is far more damaging than being a bit chubby - yes, even if kids at school do make comments. You can't control that but you can control (or you should be able to) whether people he loves essentially tell him messages that say 'you are not good enough' - as this is what she's doing. He cannot be allowed to internalise messages like that, it is so unbelievably damaging and will set him up for a lifetime of issues far more than the odd comment in school.

So I would urgently find a way to visit your mum and make all of the points you have made here, and that more supportive posters have said in agreement with you. She cannot be allowed to shame him, it's incredibly damaging to him and if she does love him, I really hope you can make her see that. All she needs to do is agree to never, ever again make any comments or show in her behaviour her feelings in relation to his weight.

For context; my mum, who has an unhealthy attitude to food herself and sadly has passed that on to me, is far more self-aware than your mum (as am I). I cannot imagine a world in which my mum ever makes a comment in front of or to my child about their weight, I truly can't. She would never do this. My mum and I have discussed it and ruefully concluded that both our excellent cooking skills and encyclopaedic knowledge of the calorie density of every food item, whilst they are a dubious honour given our histories and where we come from, stand us in good stead for helping my child a) adjust their weight as they grow (until they get a few years older and we lose all control...) and b) learn about food and cooking such that one day, even if they do (say) put on more weight as a teenager, they will have the tools and knowledge to keep themselves healthy.

Another poster has already pointed out that if fat shaming people worked there would be no fat people. It just doesn't, it makes thing so much worse. It's entirely counter productive, and it's cruel. But as others have also pointed out, a child who is overweight at your son's age is far more likely to remain so and suffer everything that comes with that. So please, you need to really put effort into 'in the background' helping him adjust it before it becomes more of a problem.

And as for your mum - I really do hope she is able to restrain herself if not for you, then for your son.

And your OH needs to weigh in too! It's so important that you keep united on this.

I wish you the best of luck.

So are we saying South Asian culture - which very very much relies on Shame as a method of weight control and coincidentally has low obesity levels - is a nasty hateful one?

”Drama like yours” can you explain what my drama is?

You keep saying it’s quite possible the grandmother has tried talking to the mother, you’re assuming here as OP hadn’t said this. What OP has said is she’s asked the grandmother to stop saying things to her child, the grandmother ignored her.

“Grandparents also are entitled to be respected.”

Respect has to be earn’t, it’s is not just given because someone is a grandparent.

“It seems pretty obvious that she is acting out of concern for her DGS.”

By calling him fat?

“Children are usually expected to follow rules, not grandparents. They are old enough and wise enough to decide for themselves what's the right thing to do.”

I honestly can’t stop laughing that all grandparents are wise enough to do the right thing! also why are grandparents not expected to follow rules? Do rules suddenly not apply to people once they become grandparents?

“It's not really about respecting parents' wishes. It's about taking action when concerned.”

So the grandparent knows better than the parent? O yeah you’ve already said they know better 🙄

I will reiterate my original point, grandparents have no rights to access their grandchildren, I will also include they have absolutely no rights to parent their grandchildren.

If a grandparent wants to ignore the parents requests because as grandparents they are clearly “wiser” and care more about their grandchildren than the actual parents, then they run the risks of loosing access to those grandchildren because it’s the parents right who they allow access to their children. It dose not matter the reasons.

Your whole rant about the grandmother knowing better, being concerned, tackling it herself, calling a child fat and putting his Dad down screams toxic overstepping possibly abusive grandmother to me!