AIBU to wonder how people do this?

[Thegoldenoriole]

I have a 3yo and 11mo. I’ve just gone back to work full time, husband also works full time. I know this is the trenches, but I really do feel like I’m barely keeping my head above water. It’s got me thinking how on earth is everyone else managing - or is everyone else quietly drowning out there?

The thing is, we have so much in our favour:

• Above average household income
• Generally happy and healthy children. 3yo can absolutely have mega tantrums but I’m very aware it could be so much harder
• Reasonable health ourselves
• Each other - DH is absolutely an equal partner
• High levels of executive function - both of us. We are “get shit done” people.
• Relatively understanding bosses
• Supportive wider family

Negatives:

• Not much leftover after mortgage, nursery and the basics - we can’t afford a cleaner, can barely afford a holiday.
• No local village - family are all 1 hour+ away so can’t babysit a random evening or just pop round (mixed blessing tbf!)
• High levels of responsibility and generally demanding jobs that sometimes involve evenings and weekends

But we’re both mentally exhausted all the time just keeping up with the day to day list of laundry, cooking and cleaning. We have various house and garden projects that pre-kids would have taken a weekend but now take months to complete. We try to give each other a bit of non-child time at weekends but it’s not “time off” it’s more like time to clean the house or go shopping unencumbered. Our sex life is on life support. Physical exercise is a non-starter. We only see friends when they organise it.

The thing that worries me is because I can’t pinpoint why we’re not coping, I don’t really see how it will get better. The kids are both asleep by 8.30 even on a bad night. How do we get more time back?!

Its a tough time. One suggestion which might work is to do a week turn about splitting childcare and home chores. So one week you largely do the kids and the next week he does. The other person focuses on cleaning, washing, tidying and so on.
Set a firm rule that once the kids are in bed, you sit down together for one hour in a child free space, no tv, hold hands and talk.
Forget holidays, take the time off to catch up and feel more in control.
Have one weekend day where you go out and do family fun.
Forget the house projects, just live as you are for a year to take the pressure off.

My kids are 5 and 3 and it’s now so much easier and getting easier with every month passed. It does get easier OP but I remember this time well! Keep repeating this is a phase and honestly you’ll blind and it will be behind you. In the meantime try and implement some small things into your daily routing to make things more manageable. Thing we used to do…

after dinner send the kids to their room with dad to play for half an hour. Set a 10 minute timer for each room run round and do as much as you can. You would be Amazed what you can do with a timer ticking.

get a slow cooker recipe book- absolute game changer. The one I got was “what’s for dinner”.

weekly food delivery

take turns with DH doing bath/ book/pjs. During this time the other runs around getting tidied and organised for the next day, clothes out and ironed, pack lunches made, even fill the water cups and put in fridge, absolutely anything that can be done the night before, do it. That way once kids are down the evening is yous and all jobs are done.

wear the 11 month old when able. I used to wear my youngest on my back right up until he was almost 2. Usually just during that whingy period from 630pm onwards. He was entertained and not moaning and I was getting some stuff done.

We had a very similar life to yours and I thought I was losing the plot it was relentless. You do get through it though. Wasn’t it Churchill who said ‘when you’re going through hell, keep going’? It’s so true.

You sound a strong couple with some good things going for you - it’ll get easier as the kids get older and more independent.

I think as a society, by trying to be progressive and allow women the same rights as men (which of course they should have) we’re actually trying to do the impossible. I don’t think it’s possible to have an enjoyable life that isn’t crazy stressful with two or more young kids, two working parents, and no “village”. It’s just not feasible, yet we keep plugging away regardless. It’s like flogging a dead horse. Not saying I think we should go back to the 50s where women we stuck at home all day with the kids, but the reality is life would be a lot easier if one parent’s responsibility was the home and the kids and the the other’s was to bring the money in. Maybe it’s men’s turn to be the home makers and women’s turn to have successful careers…

Nothing 'impossible' about it -- the idea that there is, and that feminism did women a disservice, is really damaging.

ETA And 'society' isn't trying to be progressive. Women have had to fight their way to every single right they've got.

It does get easier with time, better to keep your job going if you can, you'll move up the ladder and it will be more worthwhile. If you stop you're effectively stepping off the ladder and will have to start again lower down. Just do everything you can to make your life easier, get a cleaner if you can?

If you gave people a specific list of chores the way they tackle them, the order and speed will be slightly different for everyone. I was and am still very efficient, it’s driven by loving time to do what I want. I have always attacked whatever I’m doing.

The lack of time for each other is what is responsible for breaking couples love. We found our own small ways to have fun. On one New Years Eve we made a track and raced the two remote controlled cars that DS had been given for Christmas round the track as we couldn’t go out. This year we spent NYE is a rather gorgeous country hotel. It may be a slog, we had tough commutes as well and there was no hybrid working back then when the kids were small but the days pass.

I am sat in our motorhome overlooking The Atlantic, it’s a wild and boiling sea , we are in Ireland for 6 weeks as retired. It’s our time at last, yours will come as well.

Thanks all, it’s comforting to hear from people who have got through / are getting through it ❤️ some helpful suggestions and thoughts.

We actually both work in schools which has pros and cons - zero scope for WFH or compressed hours but I’m term time only - although so is the children’s nursery so holidays is just role-playing SAHM rather than genuine catch up or R&R time. I get why people say to consider part time but given we would have to keep the children off nursery on those days to afford it, my experience of mat leave and holidays makes me pretty confident it wouldn’t help reduce stress, just mean less money.

My husband has normal AL and occasional TOIL in term time without the kids. He actually had today off as TOIL and got through a bunch of stuff (including taking toddler out of nursery for her flu shot bless him) as well as some down time - we will have to think about how I can have the same…

We are both getting small payrises this term, maybe we should put £100/month of it aside for a cleaner. We are trying to build up savings for a house move in a few years but I think it might be money well spent.

I don’t know what’s wrong with us but it feels basically impossible for one person to do the full bedtime routine for both children single handed while the other does chores or whatever. The last time I had to do it, toddler unexpectedly fell asleep on the sofa without her nighttime nappy on and had an accident in the 15 minutes I was upstairs trying to put the baby down - and she’s normally fully dry overnight.

@TurquoiseGoldPeaches we do have one neighbour with v similar aged children who is lovely and we discussed swapping babysitting, I will follow up on this. I think we’re all so knackered that organising it seems too much like hard work, but I’m sure it would be worth it!

Have you done it? Both you and your partner worked full-time in a demanding job with 2 or more kids under 5 and still managed to have an enjoyable life? Please explain how. And keep in mind that most people can’t afford to hire nannies and most people also don’t want to only see their children at the weekend.

@Velveting also I’m in no way suggesting that feminism did women a disservice. This has nothing to do with believing women need to be at home with the kids. I’m simply pointing out that we are trying to do the impossible by expecting that two people can work full-time and care for young kids without never seeing those kids, ending up completely skint, and stressed out of their minds. Many feminists are terrified to express any even slightly negative opinions on the reality of this situation in case it jeopardises women’s hard earned position in society, and I get that, but ignoring the obvious challenges it poses isn’t doing women any favours either. The system needs to change to be more flexible and parent-friendly, and like I said, maybe it’s time dad’s took a few years off their career and looked after the kids, especially in the case of a woman who earns more than or the same as her male partner. This might seem more attractive for people if the government improved paternity leave. I used to live in Sweden and it’s pretty normal there to see toddler groups filled with dads and groups of dads out shopping with buggies in the middle of the day on a Tuesday. When would you ever see that here?! It’s because in Sweden both parents get equal maternity/paternity leave. The mother is not favoured over the father and it is assumed the care will be equally shared

I think one or both of you ideally should be working part time if possible for a while.

The thing with working part time is that it really doesn't give you any more free time. I'm off on a Wednesday with my toddler, but she's at the age where I can't leave her alone for a minute. I'm certainly not finding time to clean my bathroom or do the gardening. I have more free time for chores on the days I work from home (and there's no one around to trash the house!)

It gets easier, you are totally in the trenches now. For us with two demanding jobs the only way was to use cleaners and part time nanny and grandmother visiting occasionally to survive (and even then we rarely had time for regular hobbies or weekend projects)

if you jobs are demanding but not enough paid to leave you money for cleaner /occasional babysitter it will be tough. Some people change to less demanding jobs. Thats not my route as I don’t want to and definitely don’t want to step back as a woman when my husband does not.
maybe have a look whether either of you can be paid more for demanding job you do (promotion, change of a company etc)

my motto is if I work hard in a demanding role I might as well be paid accordingly

And society's expectations are also warped. Expecting to both parent two young children and hold down two full-time (and sounds like full-on) jobs is unrealistic.
It doesn't get a lot better as they get older either, unless you severely limit extra curricular activities.

Cleaning bathrooms can be tricky but cleaning a kitchen is easy, running a hoover around, sorting out a shopping list and other life admin. All can be done with a toddler/baby or two under foot.

I remember having exactly the same thoughts. I have a "good" DH, supportive family, no real financial issues, good mental and physical health etc and things still bloody hard.

With hindsight I think being a person with "good executive function" was part of the problem. I was used to doing everything and everything to a high standard and really I needed to accept lower standards, stop making parenthood another project and just "be" more.

Re housework, I eventually settled into a routine where tiny bits of time would be used to get a little job done. E.g. you can change a bed in 5 mins, it doesn't need to wait until you have time to clean the whole room/house. The bathroom actually only takes 15min.

I hear you. Even with my husband and I being both part time (three days a week each). Four children 15,13,12 and 3. Even with the others being older, it is full on (neurodivergence widespread in our household too!). It's a lot. The mental load is a lot. The constant housework is a lot. Our 3 year old has been ill the last few days and so less sleep and... definitely feeling it. She's lately started nursery and is coming down with all sorts of bugs and has had several days off.

Be kind to yourself. Most of us are coping, even when we don't feel like we are.

Is it possible to just accept that now is not the time for house or garden projects? If it's not going to actually fall down or be a hazard, put it on the back burner.

Have you got a playpen and a baby gate? Are you able to just contain them somewhere safe for a bit when you really need to do something else?

Other than that, tag team. One on chores, other keeping the kids from under their feet. Definitely get strict on the "one person does bedtime" thing.

Don't react to absolutely everything absolutely instantly, if nobody's going to come to any harm. Internalise the idea that it's not child abuse to tell a toddler they're going to have to wait a few minutes until you've finished changing the baby, or to let a baby cry for the time it takes to finish loading the dishwasher. Small children are tiny tyrants and will run you ragged if you let them. But the ones who aren't taught that absolutely everything has to revolve around them at all times grow up happier, more independent, more confident and nicer.