Kids having to rank their LEAST favourite classmates?

[SwizzlesTwizzles]

My DD is in year 3 and this morning she told me that yesterday everyone in the class was asked to write down the three children they most like to play with, and the three children they least like to play with. They were given a list of each child's peg number and they were told to write down the number rather than the name. I don't know the purpose of this but last time they had to say their top 3 friends it was because they were mixing the classes up. I can see a purpose for having to write down your best friends, maybe it's for mixing up the seating arrangements or something. But I can't see what a good reason might be to make them all list their least favourite kids! Yes they didn't write names but every kid knows their own number, it wouldn't ensure confidentiality. I can also imagine the potential for whispering, asking their friends who they put down, and it seems counterproductive to good class relations to ask kids to think about and cement in their heads which kids they like least. DD told me which kids she put down, and it's the 3 who have SEN. I wonder if they appear on a lot of the lists and it makes me very sad to think about. I certainly don't like the idea that there might have been kids yesterday who wrote down my DD as one of their least favourite classmates and gave that to the teacher! Should I email the school about this?

I used to teach and I’ve never heard of this method. Is it an older method? After a few weeks I think most teachers would sort of know their classroom set up and who likes who.
As a parent, I feel I know who likes who and who hates who from my daughter 😂.

My son is autistic. He is the loveliest, kindest child you could ever meet. But when he isn’t around me he totally lacks the confidence to speak. Meaning he has no friends despite really wanting one. If this exercise was carried out in his class it would be so upsetting for him and me. Not appropriate at all.

Just wow!!!

Look at the post you’ve quoted. She’s not going to complain, she’s going to ask. You’ve extrapolated that it’s this Dreikurs stuff, but what you’ve described sounds like a whole series of well thought out questions, and OP, and you, don’t know whether that’s what’s been done. So steady on with the ‘I’ve just told you’ and pretty much ordering OP not to complain when she’s not suggested complaining.

Thank you for this! A teacher did this with my class when I was in grade five (a loooooong time ago) and I always wondered what it was about. I admit at the time I didn’t like the idea of it and didn’t understand why we were doing it. That said, the teacher who did it was the best primary school teacher I ever had and I did better in her class than any other.

What an awful thing to make them do.

My daughter’s class did this! I thought it was wrong as well. I seem to remember the explanation was that the teacher wanted to find out if any of the students were having trouble making friends. It was a while ago so am a bit hazy on the details.

Thats my initial thoughts its about trying to find out who's on the fringes of the class.

Struggling to make friends for whatever reason. If it helps the teacher identify those kids and find a way to help them then is it really a bad thing?

My primary school headmaster had a cane in his office. Didn't mean it was appropriate classroom management.

If everyone's answers are in confidence so the kids aren't going to know thar everyone put down X as their least favourite, I think it's quite a good idea. It gives the teacher aa chance to separate kids who really don't get on and also means they can pick up any child who is not liked by lots of people and so may be at risk of bullying/being lonely, or may have behaviours or attributes that make them unpopular and need solving. Everyone puts down X because he's socially awkward and young for his age, maybe X needs support in this area. Maybe X needs help to join in with others appropriately etc. Everyone puts down Y because they've all noticed he stinks and being next to him is unpleasant, maybe Y's family need help or Y needs taking out of a neglectful situation.

I didn’t say it was

Any teacher doing this will certainly have enforced a strict “ we do not talk about this” rule - it’s v common to do “ top 3” because it enables understanding of classroom dynamics, if anyone has no particular friends etc. I’m certain the “ bottom 3” would be those “ play with least often” and whilst that seems uncomfortable, it could also shed light on children that need support/ help integrating at an age where intervention can make a huge difference going forward through school. The top 3 is v common in schools and can be used to assist with seating plans, school trips, playground dynamics, lunch hall issues etc. Having worked in schools for over 20 years and seen this done on at least 10 occasions I can assure that never even once have I heard of a child “ leaking” their list info to others as by year 3 they understand the potential for upset.

My daughters year group were mixed up at start of year 5. In summer term of year 4, they had to put down 3 names of their closest friends they would like to be in a class with. Of course they all talked about it. At that point DD was in a group of 6. They made a plan - A put down B,C,D. B puts down C,D and E, C put down DEF etc. Then it turned out some of them didn't stick to the plan and 1 girl wasn't put down by anyone. They talked about it before it hapenned. They talked about it after it hapenned. The girl who wasn't put down still reminds the others about it now a year later. Ours is the 'social house' and I heard the girls talk about it many times in the run up to them having to put names down. Of course, the teachers said not to talk about it. But anyone who thinks that was going to actually happen is extremely naive. Just because you haven't actually heard them talk about it in school, doesn't mean they don't talk about it outside school

Yes, they understand the potential for it to cause upset. But girls can be mean, and this is just another thing they can use against each other.

@SwizzlesTwizzles you're right to have concerns and to ask questions about the process.

@Pipthesqueak may think that Dreikurs’ work is faultless and useful; other experts have concerns over the use of the ‘negative’ question. It’s worth noting that the sociogram can still be produced without asking children to nominate their least favourite peers. The teacher needs to explain why they chose to use that optional question with young children, and how they weighed up the risks of doing so. And how they plan to manage the class dynamics in the future.

Our children are not lab rats for teachers’ sociological experiments.

Then you have poor parenting and poor teaching - the girl who was left out ( or her parents) should have gone straight to the teacher and as a consequence none of them be placed together. At year 3 they need to understand actions have consequences and it’s a shame that the sense of fair play and responsibility/ kindness / empathy was not encouraged and enforced in this instance. ( no doubt facilitated by anxious parents).

Why should there be a consequence? What exactly did they do wrong? Not sticking to the plan which you think they shouldn't have had anyway as shouldnt have been talking about it. They were asked to put down 3 names. They put down 3 names. They were asked not to talk about it in school - they didn't talk about it in school. They didn't all agree not to put this girl down, they only all found it put when they were talking at the park about who put down who. The girl who wasn't put down is the most popular, and they all thought the others would put her down so they should put someone else down to try and all stay together. And they did all end up together, so what would the parent have to complain about.

I didn't get involved beyond suggesting to her that she consider who she works well with, as well as who she is closest too, and that whatever happens she wouod still see them at breaktimes, playdates etc

And there are only 2 classes per year group - how on earth could they put none of the other 5 together?

But I agree about it being poor teaching. It was a terrible idea and the school should not have done it, it caused lots of stress and upset across the year group. They had these children for 5 years by the point they re organised the classes, so should have a pretty good idea of who works well with who, who causes trouble with who etc. Expecting children to know better than adult professionals who should be with who is just ridiculous.

Adults can be mean, but we expect 8 year olds to all be perfectly kind and considerate all the time?

I know. Your post happened to be the first I found talking about it. I think the consensus is it's a bad idea.

What a ridiculous thing to do. The teacher would be able to see who the least popular children are when no one writes their name down. I can’t picture a scenario where a teacher would need to do this. It’s awful and I would complain too.

You don’t think that a teacher- who spends a significant part of your child’s day/ time with them and is a formative part of their education ( social and emotional as well as academic) should need to know which child is so unpopular that they have no friends at all in school? Wow!! Usually this will result in practical actions and interventions to help that child with friendship issues - but hey, let’s let that kid continue to be isolated and struggle through the whole system friendless ?!

The teacher already knows. They don't need to prompt bullying by asking this question.

Of course they need to know who is struggling, but they should be able to work this out themselves through observing behaviour.

I lead a Rainbows group 1 hour per week, and could tell you who is friends with who, who struggles with group work, who doesn't get picked as partners and in groups, who feels on the outside, which are positive friendships and which are a bit toxic, who is leading who into trouble.

If a teacher who is a trained professional rather than a volunteer, and sees them 30 hours a week, can't work out who is struggling socially without a piece of paper, they are pretty rubbish at their job, so lazy they want children to do their job for them, or both.

Read what I have written. The teacher would know. I’ve been teaching for 17 years and have never once had to ask the children who they don’t like but I always know which ones are struggling socially. The teachers also do a comprehensive hand over when the class goes to the new teacher. So the previous teacher already would have informed her of friendship groups and any children who need support with friendships. The strategy she has used is unnecessary and awful for those pupils who are not popular within the class.

My dc is ND, and would've been at the bottom of everyone's list, or rather at the top of the bottom, ie, the most disliked.

When asked why, the class just said they are different, but couldn't explain why. My dc was kind, fair, loyal and just wanted friends, but they were treated terribly. They're now an adult, but it still breaks my heart to think how they were treated.

@Pipthesqueak how would you have used that info to improve my dc's school experience?

Many children are quite clever at appearing to be “ buddies to all” but this behaviour not continuing in the playground. Many teachers no longer do break / lunch duties so they are not always fully conversant with what goes on in the playground. If a school insists on set placing for children it’s not so easy to be 100% certain of class/ friendship dynamics ( which are also constantly changing). This enables children to voice their own feelings ( rather than enabling limpet friendships etc).

That is exactly what happened to my brother. He never had friends. He was never invited to a single birthday party (even the so-called "whole class" parties). He was and is kind, funny, compassionate, clever. He is also ND. The other children (and sadly, parents and sometimes even teachers) treated him terribly all through school. He was at best excluded and at worst physically bullied. It was awful. There is no question that he would have been placed last on everyone's list because they viewed him as "weird." And it would have become yet another way to bully him. Soliciting the "least liked" in a class from primary age children is such a bad idea.

I hope your DC is doing well now @FoolMeTwice2