To not pay my bus fare (London bus)

[KatRee]

Got on the bus today with my 1-year-old in the pushchair and my 3-year-old, who was walking. We went through the doors at the back to get directly into the wheelchair/pushchair space.
As soon as we got on, the announcement was played: “For your child’s safety, please stay with your buggy.” There were no seats, so my eldest also had to stand with us and hold on tight to keep his balance. I needed to supervise him to make sure he was doing that.
There were people standing in the aisle, so I couldn’t easily get to the front to tap my card to pay. So I ended up not paying.
This has happened maybe 2 or 3 times before since I’ve had kids and I always feel like I’ve done something wrong! But I’m not really sure what’s expected.
Usually we either get on at the front if the aisle is clear, as I have a little pushchair that fits down it, or we get on at the back, I quickly put the brake on, my eldest sits down and I run to the front and back to tap before the bus sets off.

Was I unreasonable not to pay today?
YABU – It’s basically stealing – pay your fare!
YANBU – For the love of God woman, supervise your small children and don’t worry about depriving TfL of £1.75!

Bus drivers, at rush hour when the buses are packed, often tell people at a bus stop that they'll let 2 people on but they have to get on at the back where 2 people have just exited. They're not expected to then push down the aisle to tap to pay as it would be impossible. If the aisle clears before those 2 people get off they'd generally go down to pay. Someone with a buggy wouldn't be able to get on.

On a packed bus - and I mean packed - there is no chance whatsoever of a ticket inspector being able to wander down the bus inspecting payment cards!

In more civilised cities they have a space for a wheelchair and a buggy space, buggies can use the wheelchair space but have to move if a wheelchair user wants to get on, or fold up the pushchair.

But they managed it for what, 100 years, and they re-introduced conductors on some London routes and had them as recently as 2012 (can"t remember when they started to originally phase them out, was it the late 90"s?) and they check tickets on packed trains? It is up to the bus operator to control numbers on the bus and monitor tickets, IMO they should run extra buses and do away with standing, it is dangerous and causes stress/aggression, and obviously non-payment.

You are completely right. I used ‘/pushchair’ as I thought if I just called it the wheelchair space people not familiar with the system would wonder what on earth as was doing parking the buggy there in the first place, but I should have explained it like you did instead.

I agree. There are a few people hoping I ‘get caught’ by an inspector, but it’s very unlikely as

1. This has happened maximum 4 times in 3 and a half years
2. In the same amount of time I’ve seen maybe one inspector on a bus
3. There is no way they would be able to get down the bus to check everyone when it’s that busy.

If the aisle had cleared enough for me to go down and tap, I would have done it as soon as it was safe to, but I was only on the bus for 4 stops and there wasn’t opportunity in that time as no one got off

Did the conductors used to go up and down the bus, or did they stand at the doors? I would love to have bus conductors. I imagine they consider it too expensive. Really noticing
the reduction in staff on the underground as well. Sometimes on the weekend the lift at our nearest station is out of service because the station isn’t staffed

Early 80"s they went round the bus taking money and giving out tickets, later as different payment methods appeared I think they checked tickets and took payment as necessary (like on a train now) until it became tap tap/Oyster card whatever and they phased out the extra human and just had a driver (more profit)

First thing you would say to the inspector would be "The bus is overcrowded, I would be leaving my children unattended to struggle down the bus and pay" If they get officious you ask for their name and say you are going to challenge with the complaints authority having to leave young children unattended on a packed bus to struggle down the aisle to pay, I would bet the conversation ends at that point.

“Take their name” 😆
As if a fare dodger is in any position to demand names to make a complaint.

There haven’t been any conductors on London buses for 10 years. Plus TfL doesn’t make a profit - it can only keep running with a significant subsidy from taxpayers.

well as long as you are willing to risk a fine! obviously you should pay your fare

If the complaint included child safety the inspector would be fucked.

She can"t physically get to the paypoint at the same time as keeping her children safe!

She’s not the only user of London buses with a buggy and toddler. Have you any idea how many people do this on a daily basis?

Travelling with children and using “child safety” as an excuse not to pay your fare will not fly for a single second.

Try it yourself if you imagine otherwise.

If the bus is so packed you cant pay your fare then you are not suppose to get on. It doesn’t mean the bus is free ffs 🤦‍♀️

Ok, a better non-confrontational approach would be to ask the ticket inspector to stay with the children until you go to pay, even in London it is still safe to trust a ticket inspector with your child or is there a health and safety/insurance rule that prevents them doing this as well as making it impossible to use the payment points?

Hundreds of thousands, many will also not pay though.

Well, precisely. If the bus really was crammed like a sardine tin I’m surprised op managed to manhandle a buggy on there in the first place.

Like I said before, everyone (well most people) that has been standing in the wheelchair space moved to let us on, but the only place they could move was into the aisle, so then the aisle was blocked.

What you are saying is very simple and easy to understand but for some reason some people just can"t or don"t want to understand it.

On London buses there's often plenty of space in the wheelchair area and seats down the back but for some reason a billion people like to cram themselves in the aisle near the front.
Another regular recorded message is "please move down inside the bus and use all the available seats".
But people don't bloody move.
You can easily get on at the middle doors and get in the space - you just literally can't get to the front to beep because there's a whole crowd in your way. If they actually moved their arses out the way then things would be different.

You’d hand your card down the bus to random strangers??

They are all Londoners, they could sing "Keep the Home Fires Burning" as they helped you out?

Depends how big the people standing are!